RE-BAPTISM

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oudave:
The catholic church is so far off when it comes to baptism. I think scripture is very clear on the subject. First in the baptizing of infants and second baptizing by sprinkeling, The greek definition is to submerse or to emerse, ie under water. It is very symbolic of the death, burriel and reserection of Christ. Besides, It is the way Christ was baptized. If he is the example, i am to follow. I ate to say it but most catholic’s have not been baptized, therefore have not recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit. Read Math 7:13-14, it’s very scary. Don’t take the chance, do it the right way. Put your trust in the scriptures, not in man.
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Error #1 - Not all of God’s revelation was written down and became “Scripture.” Which writings were “Scripture” and which were not was determined by the Catholic Church in the very late fourth century. “Scripture” was only part of the revealed truth and is itself Sacred Tradition which got written down. The rest of the Sacred Apostolic Tradition was preserved in other ways and is made known to us through the Church, who is the guardian of the Deposit of Faith left to her by the Apostles. The Church speaks for Christ (Luke 10:16).

Error #2 - The Bible is not an instruction book in Christianity. It is the literary record of the spiritual life and experience of the newborn Catholic Church during the first 100 years or so of its existence.

Error #3 - The Bible does not tell us what the procedure is for baptism. Nor does it tell us how to become a Christian, how often to celebrate the Mass and receive the Eucharist (“do THIS in memory of me”), or other questions vital to the Christian life. Christ didn’t leave us a book; He left us a Church as our teacher and guide and as His representative on earth.

Study the history of Christianity. Infants were baptized during the lifetime of the Apostles. And the Apostles taught the Church. Baptism was administered by the Apostles themselves by pouring or by immersion, depending upon the availability of water.

It is a false notion that everything the Apostles taught was written down and became the NT. That idea only developed in the 16th century with Luther’s invention of the false doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Read the Didache – nickname for the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles – which is as old as some of the writings in the NT. There’s where you’ll find the Apostles’ instructions for baptism.

Shall I provide the instructions for you? I would be glad to, in my next post.

BTW, Methodists and some Reformed churches sprinkle – the Catholic Church does not. The Catholic Church baptizes by infusion (pouring) or immersion.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
 
OUDAVE wrote:
The catholic church is so far off when it comes to baptism. I think scripture is very clear on the subject. First in the baptizing of infants and second baptizing by sprinkeling,
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The following is from the Didache, the nickname for The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, dating from the first century. The Didache (Teaching) was used by the Church for the instruction of adult pagan converts.

QUOTE:
DIDACHE
Regarding baptism. Baptize as follows: after first explaining all these (foregoing) points, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in running water. But if you have no running water, baptize in other water; and if you cannot in cold, then in warm. But if you have neither, pour water on the head three times in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. END QUOTE (Ancient Christian Writers, Volume 6, Paulist Press, NY, 1948, p. 19)

Caption under a photograph:

QUOTE:

The oldest baptistery (reconstruction) ever found was in a tiny chapel at Dura Europos, on the Euphrates River in northeastern Syria. The walls of the chapel, which was destroyed in A.D. 258, were covered with paintings of biblical scenes, traces of which are still visible. The person to be baptized stood in the shallow pool and had water poured over his head. (Yale University Art Gallery, Dura Europas Collection) END QUOTE [emphasis added]

(Understanding the New Testament, Fourth Edition, Howard Clark Kee, p. 338, Prentice-Hall, New Jersey, 1983)

(Kee is a Methodist minister and biblical scholar.)

Again, oudave, the Catholic Church does not baptize by sprinkling. Please get the facts before you spread these false statements about what the Church does, teaches, or believes. Thank you.

Peace be with you,

JMJ Jay
 
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oudave:
I ate to say it but most catholic’s have not been baptized, therefore have not recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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Dear oudave,

The Catholic church has been administering baptism for nearly two millenia. Your symbolic ordinance has been around for maybe 300 years, unless you count some of the early heresies. Either the Catholic way is valid, or some other way must be correct.If you do honest an open research you will find massive documentation for the Catholic sacrament of baptism. Have you ever considered that you are the one who is incorrect. You don’t have the excuse of invincible ignorance because you have been exposed to the truth! Is it worth the risk, oudave? I’m sure many people on this forum will be praying for you.

:blessyou:
 
About ten years ago I was talking to a Baptist man. He asked me what was the most important thing that happened to me as a Catholic.

I said I think it was my Baptism, in fact I’d like to be Baptised every day. ( I knew I couldn’t do that!)

He jumed up and told me I was Blaspheming to say that. He says aman can only be Baptised once. So all of you who say Baptists say you can be Baptised several times are in conflict with my Baptist aquaintinance. Not in Texas at least.
 
This is an issue I am very adamant about. There is nothing in the Bible that tells the age requirements of baptism. Jesus just said for us all to be baptized. And the Greek term for baptism, baptisto, does mean emerse but it can also be translated as “wash”. You don’t always emerse something to wash it.

I am also saddened by the fact that this is an issue at all. I’ll tell you why. GOD is the one that will give us the gift of the Holy Spirit when we are baptized. GOD is the one that told us to do it. Therefore, it is an action that GOD takes, not us. When we focus too much on ourselves, that’s when we get into trouble. I was baptized, and was gifted by the Holy Spirit. I don’t ever think I need to be re-baptized. In fact, when I was going to a Christian college, I was considering joining a Christian Church or Church of Christ. The issue of getting baptized again came up and I refused. That would be like saying that God didn’t do a good enough job to begin with. That’s just not the case. That is something that I was very impressed with the Catholic church about. They will recognize my baptism as something GOD did…not a symbolic action on my part.
 
4 marks:
I was “re-baptized” three (almost four times). First, at an Assembly of God congregation with the trinitarian formula. This was mandatory to become a member in good standing. Second, through an independent Oneness Pentecostal body. It was mandatory because only baptisms in “Jesus name” were considered valid. Third, at the beach last June by a Church of Christ leader. It was mandatory because the Churches of Christ believe that one isn’t a Christian until they repent and are water baptized. They said my former “baptisms” were invalid because they were symbolic, that is, they were not baptism unto salvation. Once, I almost got “baptized” at the Y by a United Methodist minister. He said one could get baptized as many times as they would like because it was just a public profession of faith in Christ and not a sacrament.

But I know that my real baptism occured when I was one month old at a Catholic church. One Lord, One Faith, ONE BAPTISM.
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Have you returned to the Church? And did your case have to be cleared by the Vatican because of those “baptisms?”
 
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Kater30:
That would be like saying that God didn’t do a good enough job to begin with. That’s just not the case. That is something that I was very impressed with the Catholic church about. They will recognize my baptism as something GOD did…not a symbolic action on my part.
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Bravo Kater!

It is God that baptizes us with the Holy Spirit. I am convinced that re-baptism is an insult to the Holy Spirit–plain and simple. One of my favorite church fathers, St Cyprian of Carthage, wanted to rebaptize heretics who wanted to convert to the Catholicism. The church refused this line of thought because even some of the heretics were baptized with the trinitarian formula. However, anything other than the trinitarian formula is NOT valid.
 
Just a clarification - someone above posted that a United Methodist pastor advised them that baptism wasn’t a sacrament and could be repeated.

That is incorrect; baptism IS a sacrament, and rebaptism is PROHIBITED by church law - that is a chargable offense.

O+
 
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Exporter:
About ten years ago I was talking to a Baptist man. He asked me what was the most important thing that happened to me as a Catholic.

I said I think it was my Baptism, in fact I’d like to be Baptised every day. ( I knew I couldn’t do that!)

He jumed up and told me I was Blaspheming to say that. He says aman can only be Baptised once. So all of you who say Baptists say you can be Baptised several times are in conflict with my Baptist aquaintinance. Not in Texas at least.
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A Baptist minister in a church on one corner may disagree with the pastor of a Baptist church directly across the street from him. Baptists are big on “liberty of conscience.” That means everybody is at liberty to believe as he chooses, including and especially the pastor. The only thing you can be certain that Baptists agree upon is baptism by immersion only, and that it is merely symbolic. The issue of how many times one may be baptized, or any other doctrine under the sun, and beliefs vary from church to church to church, even within the same denomination. The interesting thing is, each one believes he holds the absolute truth. :whacky:

I once had a list of some 250 different Baptist denominations (each teaching different doctrines, of course), but I lost it in a computer crash.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
 
Katholikos is correct regarding the “liberty of conscience” of the various baptist churches. I believe this is called “autonomy”. But if I’m not mistaken, every baptist church also practices believer’s baptism at the age of reason. And personally, that is the most difficult rule for me to understand. It seems so blatantly wrong! Apologists on both sides can debate this issue until the cows come home, but there is one statement that Jesus says that confirms why infants should be baptized as soon as possible. And this statement is also twisted by some protestant apologists to serve their man-invented doctrine. But it is very plain and simple. It cuts right to the issue. “Let the children come to me”.
 
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Katholikos:
A Baptist minister in a church on one corner may disagree with the pastor of a Baptist church directly across the street from him. Baptists are big on “liberty of conscience.” That means everybody is at liberty to believe as he chooses, including and especially the pastor. The only thing you can be certain that Baptists agree upon is baptism by immersion only, and that it is merely symbolic. The issue of how many times one may be baptized, or any other doctrine under the sun, and beliefs vary from church to church to church, even within the same denomination. The interesting thing is, each one believes he holds the absolute truth. :whacky:

I once had a list of some 250 different Baptist denominations (each teaching different doctrines, of course), but I lost it in a computer crash.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
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In nomine Jesu I offer you peace JMJ Jay,

Their are Christian Fundamentals which are “not” up for interpretation by Baptists or any other Christian Denomination. I think you are being a bit disingenious in your claim here. I don’t know any Pastor that refutes them, although they may offer different analogies to offer understanding of them.

Such is the same in the Catholic Church, we need not look any further than Vatican II to see the differences of oppinion on many topics. I am currently in RCIA at a local Parish and I see examples of complete disagreement with Rome by the Msgr who is Pastor. What you are suggesting is that since the Catholic Church professes Dogma and Doctrine that every member agrees with it and understands it the same way and this is just not true.

We find truth in God himself through Jesus Christ. Not in any institution in which men are involved. That includes SBC as well as the Catholic Church. Where I find common claims I rejoice. Where I find differences, I look to understand why and attempt to reach a sound discision through prayer, dialog and study of Scripture.

Peace.
 
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oudave:
The catholic church is so far off when it comes to baptism. I think scripture is very clear on the subject. First in the baptizing of infants and second baptizing by sprinkeling, The greek definition is to submerse or to emerse, ie under water. It is very symbolic of the death, burriel and reserection of Christ. Besides, It is the way Christ was baptized. If he is the example, i am to follow. I ate to say it but most catholic’s have not been baptized, therefore have not recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit. Read Math 7:13-14, it’s very scary. Don’t take the chance, do it the right way. Put your trust in the scriptures, not in man.
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However, we do not depend upon the Greek to understand the Jewish rituals that were practised by Jesus and the Apostles. The English word “baptism” derives from the Hebrew “Baptismo” which does not mean to immerse of submerse. This term in fact refers to the water that is used for the ritual washings such as the washing of the feet before sitting down to a meal. The first reference to this word occurs in the Old Testament passages of Leviticus because it is a reference to the ritual of sprinkling the altar as well as the priests with water before the offering of a sacrifice.

When Jesus was baptised by His cousin, John the Baptist, he sanctified the baptism that was given by John, but it was not until after the Ascension of Jesus into Heaven that there was a new significance attached to the performance of Baptism. Most Baptists who argue against the validity of the Catholic Baptism use the following verse “when he came up out of the water” (paraphrased). On the surface the verse looks as if it lends weight to the argument for “immersion”, but is that correct? NO. The point is, Jesus had to walk down into the river in order to be baptised by John, and since he had to walk into the water, he had to walk up and out of the water. Therefore, the passage that so many rely upon to ridicule the baptism of other Christians does not support the underlying theology of adult or believer’s baptism.

Another question that should be raised, since Baptists see Baptism as nothing more than an ordinance and something that does not need to be performed (sounds like an oxymoron if they are Baptists) is that of the sanctification of Baptism by Jesus. Why did Jesus say that it was necessary for him to undergo this Baptism? The Scripture is telling us that Jesus meant for us to be Baptised in order to be one of His followers. When Jesus was Baptised, there appeared a dove and a voice from heaven could be heard at the same time, giving a clear indication that the Baptism of Jesus brings the person into the family of God. At Baptism we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, because this is the moment when we die to sin with Christ and rise again, born into a new life in Christ.

Maggie
 
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