Readings in Latin?

[chevalier]

The only masses in Latin I can recall with anything near to precision, have all had the readings and many of the prayers in the vernacular. Do they sometimes do the readings, psalms and prayers in Latin? I assume they never do the sermon in Latin, but correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[batteddy]

The readings are read again in the vernacular “during” the sermon, that is to say, during the “suspension” of the liturgy before the priest gives his homily.

I have also seen them read out loud in the vernacular while the priest is reading them at the altar in latin, to save time I guess.

But psalms and other prayers? Was this a Tridentine Mass? Or just a Novus Ordo that used some Latin?

 

[kleary]

From seeing your profile, born in 1983 you wouldn’t remember a Traditional Latin Mass from the Roman Missal 1962 edition unless you attended one from like 1986 until now.

In the TLM it is an option, not mandatory, for the readings to be read in the vernacular tongue during the sermon.

Most likely you are referring to the Novus Ordo Mass of today, like at EWTN where some parts are in Latin, or watching a telecast of Mass from the Vatican where most is in Latin with the exception of some readings done in Italian.

Ken

 

[chevalier]

But psalms and other prayers? Was this a Tridentine Mass? Or just a Novus Ordo that used some Latin?

Pauline, yup. Never been to TLM. There’s probably like one church in the whole of the city that has it and I’m not sure which one, either. Can’t seem to be able to find this information online anymore, so I’m not sure it’s even still there. We’ve basically had a smooth transition without abusive trends or anything. The only thing that worries me is some bishops’ agenda of “raising the people from their knees”. Otherwise, it’s pretty conservative, so I guess there’s no apparent need for TLM nation-wide.

Most likely you are referring to the Novus Ordo Mass of today, like at EWTN where some parts are in Latin, or watching a telecast of Mass from the Vatican where most is in Latin with the exception of some readings done in Italian.

Basically, the archbishop’s cathedral has a Latin pauline mass every first Sunday of a month. They seem to be developing on it because these days the people are supposed to reply, it doesn’t all rest upon the choir. But there’s still a lot of vernacular to be heard. I was just wondering how much Latin can be there in a pauline mass.

 

[BobP123]

Most likely you are referring to the Novus Ordo Mass of today, like at EWTN where some parts are in Latin, or watching a telecast of Mass from the Vatican where most is in Latin with the exception of some readings done in Italian.

Ken

EWTN generally is a hybrid Mass, which is supposed to appeal to the conservative, I guess. Yet I always hear the “for you and for all” consecration in the vernacular and that’s the heart of the Mass. Valid or not, it’s still a lie.

 

[tee_eff_em]

EWTN generally is a hybrid Mass, which is supposed to appeal to the conservative, I guess. Yet I always hear the “for you and for all” consecration in the vernacular and that’s the heart of the Mass. Valid or not, it’s still a lie.

It is not a lie. It “undoubtedly correspond to a correct interpretation of the Lord’s intention expressed in the text. It is a dogma of faith that Christ died on the Cross for all men and women (cf. John 11:52; 2 Corinthians 5:14-15; Titus 2:11; 1 John 2:2).”

It is valid and it is the currently approved text. For any priest or bishop to change it on his own authority would be an act of disobedience (and considering its centrality to the Mass, a grave one, IMHO).

tee

 

[batteddy]

It is not a lie. It “undoubtedly correspond to a correct interpretation of the Lord’s intention expressed in the text. It is a dogma of faith that Christ died on the Cross for all men and women (cf. John 11:52; 2 Corinthians 5:14-15; Titus 2:11; 1 John 2:2).”

It is valid and it is the currently approved text. For any priest or bishop to change it on his own authority would be an act of disobedience (and considering its centrality to the Mass, a grave one, IMHO).

I agree. I’m glad the new translation is going to change it to more accurately reflect “pro multis” BUT mainly so that people who use it as an objection will shut up.

It is not a good rallying point to be outraged about as a defense for the TLM and argument against the Novus Ordo. It is used to hint at possible invalidity because it is so close to the heart of the mass, but it is dumb objection, as the “pro multis” was not probably necessary anyway. “This is…my blood” or “this is…my blood given…so that sins may be forgiven” being almost certainly sufficient.

There are so many better arguments against the Novus Ordo, and for the TLM, the biggest simply being the mass taken as a totality and total change in atmosphere both at mass and correspondingly in the Church. The lexicon used suddenly changed. The emphasises shifted. The beauty faded. Don’t get hung up over “pro multis”…“for all” is fine for now, honestly more dogmatically correct (though that doesnt justify a bad translation)…and a minor point.

 

[Brendan]

I was just wondering how much Latin can be there in a pauline mass.

All of it. The Pauline Mass is promulgated in Latin.

Any use at all of the vernacular is actually an Indult itself.

 

[ravenonthecross]

So why does the Pope mandate the Latin Education for Catholic, and Make the Novus Ordo all latin, and eventually phase it over to the Tridentine Mass?

 

[Trident59]

tee eff em,

Why should a Bishop or priest worry about such things as changing the words of the Mass. I mean, heck, they’ve been doing it for decades. I even hear it from a relatively conservative NO priest weekly.

 

[chevalier]

There are some things which cannot be changed and even in smaller matters, some changes could make validity doubtful (it’s not like every priest inclined to change mass will know what exactly changes would keep it valid and what wouldn’t, anyway). Some would be found objectionable by the congregation or other clerics, even if validity remained. This is why they shouldn’t cross the general norms. Plus, there’s canon law and liturgical instructions. Disobeying them is no mere difference in opinion.

All of it. The Pauline Mass is promulgated in Latin.

Yeah, but do they actually do the readings there in Latin anywhere outside the Vatican or clerical events, for the faithful? Of course, there’s a good reason for reading them in the vernacular because these days people just won’t be able to understand everything on the fly.