Real Presence

[JeanneH]

At what time or when did the apostles really understand that the bread and wine are actually the body and blood of Christ?

Thanks
Jeanne

 

[Chesster]

Probably when the Holy Spirit descended on them at Pentecost.

 

[NHInsider]

Probably when the Holy Spirit descended on them at Pentecost.

Hmm. I think I’d say the two who “knew Him in the breaking of the bread” after their walk on the Emmaus Road are the earliest explicit statement, and that’s Easter night.

 

[Carlan]

Hmm. I think I’d say the two who “knew Him in the breaking of the bread” after their walk on the Emmaus Road are the earliest explicit statement, and that’s Easter night.

Yes NH, I think so. We don’t always recognise Him as he walks beside us on the road of life but in the Eucharist at the very center of our worship we are once again enlightened. Peace, Carlan

 

[diggerdomer]

At what time or when did the apostles really understand that the bread and wine are actually the body and blood of Christ?

Thanks
Jeanne

We have no idea.

What we are sure of is that they experienced the real (true) presence of Christ.

 

[spockrates]

Hmm. I think I’d say the two who “knew Him in the breaking of the bread” after their walk on the Emmaus Road are the earliest explicit statement, and that’s Easter night.

Do you mean this passage?

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

(Luke 24)

I’m not so sure the realization was here, in Luke 24.Luke writes that they recognized the stranger was Jesus *when *he broke the bread. He does not write that they recognized the stranger *was *the bread. The realization must have occurred somewhere else, I think. Perhaps in John, chapter 6?

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Do you mean this passage?

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

(Luke 24)

I’m not so sure the realization was here, in Luke 24.Luke writes that they recognized the stranger was Jesus *when *he broke the bread. He does not write that they recognized the stranger *was *the bread. The realization must have occurred somewhere else, I think. Perhaps in John, chapter 6?

I do not think the apostles didn’t even know what was Jesus talking about in John chapter 6, as evidenced by Peter’s response in the end of the said chapter. I do not think anyone knows now, but I would speculate, as Chesster also did, that they realized it after the Holy Spirit descended upon them on Pentecost.

God bless.

 

[spockrates]

+JMJ+

I do not think the apostles didn’t even know what was Jesus talking about in John chapter 6, as evidenced by Peter’s response in the end of the said chapter. I do not think anyone knows now, but I would speculate, as Chesster also did, that they realized it after the Holy Spirit descended upon them on Pentecost.

God bless.

Good to virtually see you again, Nun! I’ve enjoyed our thoughtful conversations in the past. Are you saying that we know what Jesus was saying in John 6, because we know what the Church says He was saying, but Peter and the others did not know, because the realization of the truth had not yet occurred?

 

[Philthy]

I think that those who heard Jesus for the Bread of Life discourse and those who were in present at the Last Supper “got it” shortly after the Resurrection.
What would appear to be more than mere speculation is that by the time Acts 2 was being lived, the Christian community had as part of it’s main focus “the breaking of the bread” which is placed on a par with prayer, teaching of the Apostles, and communal life.

Acts 2:42
“They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers.”

Also, by the time Paul had written his first letter to the Corinthians, he had received as part of his vision instruction regarding the significance of the Lord’s Supper. He says point blank that whoever partakes of it in an unworthy manner is “guilty of the body and blood” of our Lord…those are pretty strong words.

1 Corinthians 11:23-29
“I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given
thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying,
“This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink
the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will
be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who
eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself

 

[nuntym]

Good to virtually see you again, Nun! I’ve enjoyed our thoughtful conversations in the past.

Hi Spock! Likewise ^___^

Are you saying that we know what Jesus was saying in John 6, because we know what the Church says He was saying, but Peter and the others did not know, because the realization of the truth had not yet occurred?

Most likely. However, they probably remembered this particular incident when they were in the Last Supper, and fully recognized the implications, as I said earlier, after Pentecost.

God bless!

 

[JeanneH]

Thank you one and all

God Bless
Jeanne

 

[puzzleannie]

At what time or when did the apostles really understand that the bread and wine are actually the body and blood of Christ?

Thanks
Jeanne

it seems at least from what we know from the NT that they as individuals came to full knowledge and acceptance at different times, for instance when Peter was moved by the Spirit to acknowledge Christ as Messiah at the end of John 6, showing “got” at least in part the Lord’s message that others rejected. John seems to have been because of his youth, innocence, fervor and great love for the Lord to have been the first to “get it”. Thomas came to belief by his encounter the week after Easter, the disciples on the road to Emmaus by their experience, Paul through his conversion and subsequent instruction, and so forth. EAch of them had to receive the entirely of Christ’s teaching and mission but also to come to acceptance and personal faith. The work of Christ’s revelation culminated in the events we commemorate in the Triduum, but He continued to reveal their meaning through His personal encounters with them, in groups and as individuals, after the Resurrection. He promised at his Ascension to send the Spirit to complete their instruction and confirm their faith, which He did at Pentecost. Certainly their wholehearted embarkation on their evangelizing mission after that event shows by then they all “got it”.