"Real Presence"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Shakuhachi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Shakuhachi

Guest
Since God is omnipresent, ever present everywhere all the time, when we talk about the “Real Presence” in the Blessed Sacrament aren’t we really talking about the quality of our awareness to God’s presence?

God is present everywhere but we are distracted from it. So much else going on. When we go to a sacred space it is sacred because it is dedicated and we can dedicate our own awareness.

The Blessed Sacrament commands our attention in a way that other objects and places do not even though God is present in them as well.

Or so it seems to me.
 
I think one of the main differences between the Eucharistic Presence and the omnipresentness of God is that in the Eucharist, Christ is on earth in the flesh. That pertains in a special way to humans since we live in the flesh.
 
God being present “in the flesh” provides a concrete reality to the Sacrament, as well as to Jesus’ humanity. God is pure spirit and therefore does not tangibly dwell with us at all times, but the Second Person of the Trinity does tangibly dwell with us when the priest confects the Eucharist.

All of the Sacraments use the senses in some way and all involve another person. Jesus says, “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood will live forever”, and then you can physically participate in what he talked about 2000 years ago at any Mass on any day of the week: receiving, tasting, chewing, swallowing. So you can have an objective knowledge that you received this inward grace. It’s not an abstract idea that you can never know for sure about.
 
Last edited:
The phrase ‘Real Presence’ in regards to the eucharist means that Jesus is really, truly, and substantially present bodily under the species of the bread and wine. Jesus is present in the eucharist in his humanity, bodily as he was present to those who saw him in his humanity when he walked on the earth 2000 years ago. But since Jesus is also God, the whole Christ is present in the eucharist, that is, body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.
 
NO, and what you suggest is a serious error:thinking:

God “everywhere” is at best the “spirit” of God; Catholic Holy Communion is the VERY PERSON of GOD/ Jesus Christ; Really, Truly and Substantially Present to US ; Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

FROM OUR CATECHISM

1074 “The liturgy is the summit toward which the activity of the Church is directed; it is also the font from which all her power flows.” It is therefore the privileged place for catechizing the People of God. “Catechesis is intrinsically linked with the whole of liturgical and sacramental activity, for it is in the sacraments, especially in the Eucharist, that Christ Jesus works in fullness for the transformation of men.”

1324 The Eucharist is “the source and summit of the Christian life.” "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch."

1374 The mode of Christ’s presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as “the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend.” In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist “the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained.” “This presence is called ‘real’ - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present.”

1378 Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. “The Catholic Church has always offered and still offers to the sacrament of the Eucharist the cult of adoration, not only during Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated hosts with the utmost care, exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful, and carrying them in procession.”

May God guide your path, Pray very much
Patrick
 
Maybe we need to ask, “What is presence?” Can there be degrees of presence? We know there can certainly be degrees of awareness.

Is the Holy Spirit indwelling? In everyone? More present to some than others?

Can God truly be absent? Isn’t our being a share in the being of God?
 
How does the “Spirit” of God differ from the “Person” of God?
 
READ John 4:23-24 and it teaches that God is literally “A SPIRIT”

The “person” of GOD applies exclusively to Jesus Christ who ALONE in the Triune Godhead assumed for a time a human nature; and always retained as well His Divine Nature. bOTH NATURES IN jESUS ARE PERFECT

So when we speak of GOD we infer the Trinity: God the Father, God the Son [Jesus] and God the Holy Spirit; each of which is identified many times in the NT.

But here all three appear at one time and place for our edification:

Matt.3 Verses 13 to 17
[13] Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him.
[14] John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” [15] But Jesus GOD THE SON] answered him, “Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness.” Then he consented.
[16] And when Jesus was baptized, he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God [GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT] descending like a dove, and alighting on him;
[17] and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son, [GOD THE FATHER] with whom I am well pleased."

God Bless you and thanks for asking
Patrick
 
Shakuhachi said:
How does the “Spirit” of God differ from the “Person” of God?
Click to expand...
The word ‘Spirit’ capitalized generally connotes the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity as it does in the Bible especially in the New Testament. If you uncapitalize the word ‘Spirit’ in your sentence, then we could be talking about God’s nature who is a spirit. In this sense, all three persons of God are spirits. However, the proper name of one of the persons in God is called the Holy Spirit who is a distinct person from the Father and the Son.
 
Last edited:
Shakuhachi said:
As if there is a distinction.
Click to expand...
Here is an example of the “distinction”

I say I’m going to give you a million dollars

Or I actually give you ten thousand dollars

WHICH IS ACTUALLY BETTER?

We Catholics REALLY Do have Jesus Christ; the very one and same that died on the Cross IN PERSON; NOT only in “Spirit”; dear friend you may choose disbelieve this; BUT you ought to be able see that IF it is true it then becomes the GREATEST TRUTH possible on earth. And the most compelling reason to become an Informed and fully practicing Roman Catholic

May God guide your path
Patrick
 
It sounds like you are saying “in spirit” is not quite a reality. Like, “I cannot come to your graduation but I will be with you in spirit.” Is that what you mean by spirit?
 
Shakuhachi said:
I understand that but PJM stated
40.png
PJM:
God “everywhere” is at best the “spirit” of God;
Click to expand...
As if there is a distinction.
Click to expand...
I think what PJM meant or should have meant and which is true is that Jesus in his divine nature is present everywhere in person as are the Father and the Holy Spirit as it is written “Do I not fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord” (Jeremiah 23:24). Jesus in his humanity is not present everywhere but only where his body is animated by a human soul such as in heaven where he ascended after his resurrection and without leaving heaven also on our alters and in our tabernacles under the species of the consecrated bread and wine.
 
God is present everywhere certainly, he is for example present in my room now, but my room is not God but the Eucharist IS God. When Jesus came to earth 2,000 years ago, those who believed that he was God were easily answered in their prayers, and made Jesus happy in his humanity. In the same way when we believe that the holy sacrament is Jesus then it is the joy of Jesus in the holy sacrament, and we more easily receive the graces that we ask him.
It’s my opinion
 
That doesn’t seem to qualify as “omnipresent”. It seems more akin to “thoughtfulness”.
 
I was not precise enough

Catholic Holy Communion Is the PERSON of Jesus Christ; the same Jesus who died on the Cross; REAL Body, Blood Soul and Divinity.

My friend I cannot be more precise than that

GBY

Partick
 
This particular theology has existed for centuries. Though before the Reformation (or ought we say, revolution) there were a few bishops and faithful who disagreed, and had other interpretations, the apostles handed down a teaching which is the truth that Christ left us - that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus; the substance changes but the accidents remain.

Only the ‘proper’ Church has this - the Catholic, Orthodox, (and some old catholic communities) - only we possess the ability to ordain a priest as a priest in Apostolic Succession. Yet the fulness of truth can only be found within the Catholic Church, the Body of Christ in mystic.
 
PJM said:
I was not precise enough

Catholic Holy Communion Is the PERSON of Jesus Christ; the same Jesus who died on the Cross; REAL Body, Blood Soul and Divinity.

My friend I cannot be more precise than that

GBY

Partick
Click to expand...
I am not trying to be obtuse but is not that same PERSON with you right now where you are?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top