Reality of Religious Life

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When someone is bold enough to say…“that was a bad recommendation” or “you don’t know what you are talking about” THAT is the height of snarkiness. :rolleyes:
Cloisters has a long association with many orders, in promoting them, and communicating with them. Most people who read regularly know this.

OP: With regard to “why does it have to be so hard?” Did you ever really pray that Litany of Humility after all? It’s pretty hard, For everyone. But it does purify one’s soul.

Entering into an order is not an escape. It’s not a bed of roses. Same with the priesthood. Whatever problems a person has when entering, they tend to keep.

One enters for God’s will to be done, not our own remedy.
 
Umm-did I say that Cloisters didn’t know what she was talking about? Don’t think so. As for “snarky” that means different attitudes by different mind sets. As for my opinion, I was keeping Rosebud’s age, culture, and life experience in mind. I apologize if I offended anyone. Peace.
 
When someone is bold enough to say…“that was a bad recommendation” or “you don’t know what you are talking about” THAT is the height of snarkiness. :rolleyes:
Cloisters has a long association with many orders, in promoting them, and communicating with them. Most people who read regularly know this.

OP: With regard to “why does it have to be so hard?” Did you ever really pray that Litany of Humility after all? It’s pretty hard, For everyone. But it does purify one’s soul.

Entering into an order is not an escape. It’s not a bed of roses. Same with the priesthood. Whatever problems a person has when entering, they tend to keep.

One enters for God’s will to be done, not our own remedy.
I have read the litany of humility. Difficult. I thought ultimately the goal of Christianity is to remedy or purify the soul?
The litany of humility is intimidating. The standard for Christ is high. Humility is not what I thought it was.
All things in life are difficult in one way or another.
 
Umm-did I say that Cloisters didn’t know what she was talking about? Don’t think so. As for “snarky” that means different attitudes by different mind sets. As for my opinion, I was keeping Rosebud’s age, culture, and life experience in mind. I apologize if I offended anyone. Peace.
I was not talking to you, dear one.
 
I have read the litany of humility. Difficult. I thought ultimately the goal of Christianity is to remedy or purify the soul?
The litany of humility is intimidating. The standard for Christ is high. Humility is not what I thought it was.
All things in life are difficult in one way or another.
Our goal as Christians is the Unitive Way of Life, which comes from prayer. Read The Three Stages of the Interior Life. We are to be joined to God in continuous contemplation (“Pray always”). The Benedictines regard Heaven/Peace as the soul moving to the Bosom of God.

You’re acknowledging the difficulty of the Christian calling. This is why we have Our Lady, St. Joseph, the angels and saints, the Sacraments and Sacramentals. Wear the Five-Fold Scapular with St. Benedict medal, and pray the Rosary and Divine Mercy Chaplet daily. Don’t forget to talk to God in your own words. Pray with your feelings.

For the month of June, I forwarded to all of my online groups an archive.org book on the Sacred Heart which has daily reflections.

Additionally, The Spirit of St. Francis de Sales is a good read. He is regarded as the greatest imitator of the Sacred Heart of Jesus.
 
No matter the vocation one embraces, there are going to be difficulties along the way. There will be misunderstandings, hurts for some reason or other, rejections - etc. etc. For the simple reason that The Lord’s intention is to draw one to holiness and so there will be sufficient joys and consolations, sufferings and difficulties along the way - and sufficient to make a saint of one - even a great saint as the life of St Therese of Lisieux does illustrate…it is all a question of our responses and Grace is never ever lacking. This can and does include difficulties, problems etc we might have as a member of and contributing to threads in Catholic Discussion sites…are we guided by Grace or invested in our ego and its needs?
These Catholic Discussion sites are open to the whole world and can become a tool of evangelisation, a work for good guided by The Holy Spirit to God’s Glory on earth. We can also effect the opposite, dependant on our responses again. I think personally that marriage should have many consolations indeed, if not for any other reason than one cannot decide after marriage it is not to one’s taste or whatever. With priesthood, consecrated life and private vows one can after all decide the vocation is not for one, apply for dispensation or in the case of a priest laicization and try some other vocation…the only exception to that I think is Consecrated Virginity - once consecrated to virginity it is for life, there is no dispensation whatsoever.

I think if one is in a God gifted personal vocation, one is prepared to negotiate all the difficulties and sufferings, humbly grateful for joys and consolations. It is evidence of Grace at work. Mind you, Grace guided responses in a God gifted vocation may not be an overnight event, rather a journey. And this applies to any and all vocations. It does place a particular kind of responsibility on those responsible for formation in priesthood and consecrated life including consecrated virginity.

The joys and consolations, sufferings and difficulties might only differ in kind according to one’s particular vocation.
 
No matter the vocation one embraces, there are going to be difficulties along the way. There will be misunderstandings, hurts for some reason or other, rejections - etc. etc. For the simple reason that The Lord’s intention is to draw one to holiness and so there will be sufficient joys and consolations, sufferings and difficulties along the way - and sufficient to make a saint of one - even a great saint as the life of St Therese of Lisieux does illustrate…it is all a question of our responses and Grace is never ever lacking. This can and does include difficulties, problems etc we might have as a member of and contributing to threads in Catholic Discussion sites…are we guided by Grace or invested in our ego and its needs?
These Catholic Discussion sites are open to the whole world and can become a tool of evangelisation, a work for good guided by The Holy Spirit to God’s Glory on earth. We can also effect the opposite, dependant on our responses again. I think personally that marriage should have many consolations indeed, if not for any other reason than one cannot decide after marriage it is not to one’s taste or whatever. With priesthood, consecrated life and private vows one can after all decide the vocation is not for one, apply for dispensation or in the case of a priest laicization and try some other vocation…the only exception to that I think is Consecrated Virginity - once consecrated to virginity it is for life, there is no dispensation whatsoever.

I think if one is in a God gifted personal vocation, one is prepared to negotiate all the difficulties and sufferings, humbly grateful for joys and consolations. It is evidence of Grace at work. Mind you, Grace guided responses in a God gifted vocation may not be an overnight event, rather a journey. And this applies to any and all vocations. It does place a particular kind of responsibility on those responsible for formation in priesthood and consecrated life including consecrated virginity.

The joys and consolations, sufferings and difficulties might only differ in kind according to one’s particular vocation.
Thank you for this post. I think I often forget there is no way of avoiding conflict or negativity in this life.
 
Thank you for this post. I think I often forget there is no way of avoiding conflict or negativity in this life.
👍
You are not alone. I can forget too faced with some sort of difficulty. I think it is rather easy sitting at a keyboard and tapping out what one knows to be true - one can even forget that one does not always live up to what is true and no one does all the time. Life is very much a hit and miss type of journey and one of the definitions of sin is “to miss the mark”.
The good thing about our faulted and weak humanity and embracing it is that it tends to cool pride including spiritual pride and keeps one in one’s rightful place…humble and humbled. It is a call to gratitude and thanksgiving when I realise that The Good God loves to distraction the stumbling and sinful, faulted and weak human beings He has created - so much so, He died for all without exceptions and while we were still sinners “But God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us” (Romans Chapter 8)

“If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (First Letter of St John Chapter 1)
 
“The pettinesses of the cloister are inevitable,” Our Lord said to Sr. Mary of the Holy Trinity, OSC, the Poor Clare mystic of Jerusalem. If you read her book, there are detailed other problems that can arise.

Novices get scolded by their formators. This is done to make them run to Jesus instead of clinging to the Novice Mistress. Lots of varied emotions in the novitiate.

Acedia – lack of enthusiasm for religious practice – can also be rampant.

Sexual temptations of varying sorts. Read the Conferences of St. John Cassian for more information.

Whatever you’re called upon to do, there is always the temptation not to do it.

Our Lord told St. Faustina that religious land in Hell because they won’t practice interior silence. Another reason for religious landing in Hell is not living their vows. That says a lot.

Have you read “Dark Night of the Soul?” I always point discerners in that direction so they can start GENTLY working on their faults – one at a time – before entering.
What do you mean by novices get scolded by their mistresses? Is it to test they are living their lives solely to please Christ? They are seeking the approval of God alone.
This is not a critique of anyone…but my span of life is now long enough that when I was young and in formation, those who were at the other end of the spectrum were denizens of the 19th century.

I have seen a lot across my years. The changes I have seen – and been part of – have been improvements. I’m glad that young candidates today don’t go through some of the things I went through. I am also grateful that whole categories of Religious, like the lay monks and the auxiliatrices, have been abolished. They really should never have existed but they were products of their era, with its class distinctions.

We have to be very careful about referencing a Sister Mary of the Holy Trinity or a Sister Josefa Menendez – or for that matter a Saint Thérèse or a Saint Bernadette. Mistresses of Novices of the sort like Mother Marie de Gonzague [Thérèse] or Mother Marie-Thérèse Vauzou [Bernadette] would no more be what one would – or should – encounter today than were those Religious who participated in Joan of Arc’s burning at the stake…and thanks be to God for the change

The renewal of Religious Life that began under Pope Pius XII and continued with the Council and with Blessed Paul VI has brought us to a much better and healthier place than where we were decades ago…also thanks be to God.

Formation work today is not based in 19th century spirituality or 19th century mindsets regarding the human person, for many very good reasons.

One of the greatest tragedies of a contemporary formation program that went horribly wrong was a group trying to assert a military-like formation that was of the mindset of a bygone era. Many of us warned about it – and sadly, we were proved right.

I’ve done formation work for years…I never scolded anyone. I’ve had to make demands of young men in formation just as I’ve had to make demands of those beyond formation, when it came to a difficult assignment that demanded sacrifice…but I’ve never scolded.

There are all sorts of practices that were frankly unhealthy and they’ve been done away with…and they shouldn’t be missed
Both Sts. Jane Frances de Chantal and Therese mention such.

The Rule of St. Benedict says that community members have to be corrected in various ways. Harshness works for some, gentle persuasion for others.

In her advice to superiors, St. Jane mentions seeking out sisters whose feelings were hurt by their words (correction).

St Therese mentions “severely scolded a novice” and seeking her out to become friends again. She mentioned elsewhere that she scolded novices so they would seek out Jesus instead of her. I am drawing the conclusion that she didn’t want the novices developing an attachment to her, which would violate the rule against particular friendships

Religious life is also full of correction – or being judgemental, as the world would say

I would suggest seeking out a Visitation monastery and making a silent retreat there.
cloisters.tripod.com/us_vhm_first_fed/
I’m not understanding how we got from an interest in Religious Life to a silent retreat in a Visitation Monastery or all the models discussed being from monastic life. One can be a Religious without being a Monastic. One can “leave the world” without being in cloistered enclosure

Whether one can adapt to living – or even liking – monastic enclosure is only an indication relative to that specific life…it wouldn’t touch upon the many apostolic congregations that exist today that have a very different lifestyle

Religious Life has many forms. Many congregations of Sisters wouldn’t even use the term “Mistress of Novices” or “Mother Superior” today. There’s a novice director and various terms are used for leadership today

And again…the Rule of Saint Benedict was written in the sixth century. Yes, he spoke of corporal punishment for a certain type of recalcitrant monk; an abbot who did that today would be arrested – and rightly so. He should be
 
I do agree that a superior such as a Mother Marie de Gonzague would be highly unlikely in religious life today. The life of St Therese however I think can speak to any and all vocations, not due to her precise situations, but due to the essence or spirit of her responses to her situations and development of a theology of The Little Way. She is not only possibly the greatest saint of the 20th century - she is a declared Doctor of The Church speaking to all centuries: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=242119 “A Spirituality of Imperfection”

With respect…Barb:)
I have experienced monastic life and decided to leave myself - I was not asked to leave. The Lord sure writes in very crooked lines at times 🙂 It always reminds me of the scouts motto “Be prepared” 👍
 
This is not a critique of anyone…but my span of life is now long enough that when I was young and in formation, those who were at the other end of the spectrum were denizens of the 19th century.

I have seen a lot across my years. The changes I have seen – and been part of – have been improvements. I’m glad that young candidates today don’t go through some of the things I went through. I am also grateful that whole categories of Religious, like the lay monks and the auxiliatrices, have been abolished. They really should never have existed but they were products of their era, with its class distinctions.

We have to be very careful about referencing a Sister Mary of the Holy Trinity or a Sister Josefa Menendez – or for that matter a Saint Thérèse or a Saint Bernadette. Mistresses of Novices of the sort like Mother Marie de Gonzague [Thérèse] or Mother Marie-Thérèse Vauzou [Bernadette] would no more be what one would – or should – encounter today than were those Religious who participated in Joan of Arc’s burning at the stake…and thanks be to God for the change

The renewal of Religious Life that began under Pope Pius XII and continued with the Council and with Blessed Paul VI has brought us to a much better and healthier place than where we were decades ago…also thanks be to God.

Formation work today is not based in 19th century spirituality or 19th century mindsets regarding the human person, for many very good reasons.

One of the greatest tragedies of a contemporary formation program that went horribly wrong was a group trying to assert a military-like formation that was of the mindset of a bygone era. Many of us warned about it – and sadly, we were proved right.

I’ve done formation work for years…I never scolded anyone. I’ve had to make demands of young men in formation just as I’ve had to make demands of those beyond formation, when it came to a difficult assignment that demanded sacrifice…but I’ve never scolded.

There are all sorts of practices that were frankly unhealthy and they’ve been done away with…and they shouldn’t be missed

I’m not understanding how we got from an interest in Religious Life to a silent retreat in a Visitation Monastery or all the models discussed being from monastic life. One can be a Religious without being a Monastic. One can “leave the world” without being in cloistered enclosure

Whether one can adapt to living – or even liking – monastic enclosure is only an indication relative to that specific life…it wouldn’t touch upon the many apostolic congregations that exist today that have a very different lifestyle

Religious Life has many forms. Many congregations of Sisters wouldn’t even use the term “Mistress of Novices” or “Mother Superior” today. There’s a novice director and various terms are used for leadership today

And again…the Rule of Saint Benedict was written in the sixth century. Yes, he spoke of corporal punishment for a certain type of recalcitrant monk; an abbot who did that today would be arrested – and rightly so. He should be
Thank you, DR, you’re like another angel guardian to me on these forums.

The Visitation has always offered cloistered retreats. I was letting her know that they are available to discuss her attractions.

I have actually heard cloistered novices refer to their formator as “my mistress.”.
 
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