Rebaptism

[Wannano]

Thanks. What does “… that is, as long as we carry the old man about our neck.” Mean?

I don’t know, but it suggests a condition. St Paul’s Scriptures, and other Scriptures, express something like this; that as long as we persevere, continue, remain in Him, we are justified. Though we may fall away, we still have access to forgiveness by turning to Him and confessing.

That is the way I believe as well. Martin Luther says in your link that repentance is nothing more than to return to your baptism. That is strange when the first message about Baptism was first prefaced with “repent and be baptized.”

He even claims that a Jew coming for baptism under false pretences would still have a valid baptism . He seems to be saying that Baptism is a once and for all cure all for sin. Sounds OSASistic.

I wonder why he started his last sentence with the word IF instead of SINCE. IF is a tiny word that has huge implications, indeed, the basis for Anabaptistic thought in relation to obtaining salvation through the act of baptism, especially as an infant.

I have read numerous accounts of Martin Luther struggling with his faith. I have no idea for sure but I wonder if he felt the old man was an albatross. He talks of reliving ones baptism daily as we encounter the weight of the old man. Did he really not realize he could live his heavy burden at the foot of the Christ?

Surely he had an understanding of scriptures like, Col. 3:5-10, Romans 6, 2Cor. 5:17 and others.

 

[benhur]

GOod topic.

My mother was baptized as a young adult in the Catholic church. She wasn’t really anything prior to being catholic.

Awhile ago, after getting divorced, she started going to other churches. Now she is scheduled to get baptized again. I tried understanding why she feels the need to do this but all I can come up with is that it is pretty superficial and selfish. Not selfish in the sense that it is a bad thing but that it really has nothing to do except present an outward sign of faith for oneself.

I’m trying to figure out how to let her know that I won’t be attending

Hi CS

Understand your "dilemma’’. I sometimes face that with attending church with differing communion beliefs and whether to participate or not. You want to do what is best for all without compromising your convictions.

Having said that, not sure what is hard to understand unless you have not had any good explanation for her "feelings’’ on the matter. I mean why does she feel that she needs to be rebaptized ? I mean it can certainly be superficial/selfish, which I would call being in the "flesh’’ or being "carnal’’. It could also be quite deep and selfless (dying to yourself) which I would call “obedience” and quite “spiritual”, based on convictions, and usually "changed’’, or "turned around’’/repentant convictions.

But of course the explanation must come from her. If it be a "carnal " one then you could attend out love for a weaker “brethren”. But if it be a mature, spiritual one then attendance challenges your love even more, for it confronts your very own convictions.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

Good questions.
I think some churches are not able, nor do they wish, to be able to determine whether someone had a genuine conversion before their first baptism, even if as an adult. They may claim to not have been genuine or something… and how should that church know if they were truly “made anew”?

Infant Baptism is done through the privilege of the parents, sponsors, and the whole Church who are believers and accepting the Child into the body. Until they have the ability to accept or reject personal belief, they are grafted through members. They have committed no personal sin, but are born outside a state of grace. Baptism brings that grace by the merit of Christ’s forgiveness.

I know you both have strong convictions to believers only Baptism. We believe the Church has always practiced Baptizing infants of Christian parents from Apostolic Tradition. The Church affirmed Baptism as valid even before the 8th day around 250 AD. This is even before we have a record of the correct Canon of Scripture.

If we use the same method for confirming Scripture to the practice of Infant Baptism, we should conclude that it is Apostolic.

Hi rc,

Good to see you.

Good posts.

Not sure that baptismal tradition has same weight as canon/scripture tradition.

On the other end is the view that it may not such a big deal to allow infant baptism to stand, if after all what is important is being a believer and filled with the Holy Ghost later on, which can happen with or without baptism. I mean if it is "symbolic’’ , then one can have an effectual spiritual walk before any re-baptism, or even any baptism in water. ( however not advocating not being baptized out of obedience etc.).

Blessings

 

[Rosebud77]

What I see in many seeking infant baptism is an act of sheer utter love for the babies…Protection wherever they can find it… And I honour that.

What I sometimes see in those denouncing infant baptism is a reaction against eg abuse but the church and I lament that.

 

[Wannano]

What I see in many seeking infant baptism is an act of sheer utter love for the babies…Protection wherever they can find it… And I honour that.

What I sometimes see in those denouncing infant baptism is a reaction against eg abuse but the church and I lament that.

Could you share more of your thoughts and information with us to give clarification to your last sentence? Thanks.

 

[Rosebud77]

“What I sometimes see in those denouncing infant baptism is a reaction against eg abuse but the church and I lament that.”

Could you share more of your thoughts and information with us to give clarification to your last sentence? Thanks.

Simply that some become so hostile t o eg the Catholic Church but retain a faith in Jesus. The tendency in anger or deep hurt is to turn the back on all associated with that church.

When I lived on a small Scottish island with a very chequered religious history there was great hostility to anything RC, way beyond reason. I was still C of E at that stage else I would not have heard much of this.

Automatically the basic tenets fly out of the window. The familyI knew best had strong connections with a branch of one sect. Brethren who would go to war te anything that "smacked of Rome. " went way back to some dark events out there.

One of the ladies asked me once re infant baptism as we had babies of incomers being christened. I tried to make it simple enough, saying it was to keep the baby safe until they could choose themsellves BUT IT DOES NOT was the vehement reply.

If you are angry like that from way back, a kneejerk sets in.

Same lady rold me that when they were children they were forbidden many thinks on the sabbath eg riding a pony. She did so one day, fell off and dared not tell even though she was hurt

So much war and unhealed wounds between the denoms.