Redemptionis Sacramentum

[robin_hood]

In discussions with some Priests and members of Liturgical groups, the reason that they give for the non introduction of Redemptionis Sacramentum in their Parishes is that the local Bishop or National Bishops have not given the ok for the application of this document. They state that any document of this type must be moulded for use by the Bishop for use in their local Diocese.
In my simple way I thought that a Document signed by the Pope like this should be obeyed as soon as possible.And in reading the document the Bishop only comes into play when Parishes do not comply.

 

[mercygate]

What priests? What “liturgical groups?” All one diocese?

 

[netmilsmom]

robin hood:

In discussions with some Priests and members of Liturgical groups, the reason that they give for the non introduction of Redemptionis Sacramentum in their Parishes is that the local Bishop or National Bishops have not given the ok for the application of this document. They state that any document of this type must be moulded for use by the Bishop for use in their local Diocese.
In my simple way I thought that a Document signed by the Pope like this should be obeyed as soon as possible.And in reading the document the Bishop only comes into play when Parishes do not comply.

I read that the parishes have three years to comply. I’m not sure this is true or not.
In my old parish, anything that they didn’t like in the document or any other abuse, they stated that our Archdiocese said that they could do it this way. One had to break through many walls to find out otherwise.
We have a Cardinal who will not lead here.
I moved to a more Conservative parish.

 

[msproule]

This is a quote taken from the very end of RS (emphasis added):

 This Instruction, prepared by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the 
 Discipline of the Sacraments by mandate of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II in 
 collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was approved 
 by the same Pontiff on the Solemnity of Saint Joseph, March 19, 2004, and he 
 ordered it to be published and **to be observed immediately by all concerned**.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

robin hood:

In discussions with some Priests and members of Liturgical groups, the reason that they give for the non introduction of Redemptionis Sacramentum in their Parishes is that the local Bishop or National Bishops have not given the ok for the application of this document. They state that any document of this type must be moulded for use by the Bishop for use in their local Diocese.
In my simple way I thought that a Document signed by the Pope like this should be obeyed as soon as possible.And in reading the document the Bishop only comes into play when Parishes do not comply.

Yes, I agree I am also seeing this. We also have priests and parishes that even after the Bishop published the norms in the diosesan paper and declared them to be in force refuse to follow them. Some say that they “still have unanswered questions”. What is so hard with following the rules while seeking answers to your questions. RS is not a guideline or pastoral suggestion it is a Directive.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

I read that the parishes have three years to comply. I’m not sure this is true or not.
In my old parish, anything that they didn’t like in the document or any other abuse, they stated that our Archdiocese said that they could do it this way. One had to break through many walls to find out otherwise.
We have a Cardinal who will not lead here.
I moved to a more Conservative parish.

I believe that was 3 years for the GIRM beginning in 2002 so they have until Advent 2005 about 6 or 7 months to have it completely in place. RS was to be observed immediately in all diocese and all parishes.

 

[netmilsmom]

Br. Rich SFO:

I believe that was 3 years for the GIRM beginning in 2002 so they have until Advent 2005 about 6 or 7 months to have it completely in place. RS was to be observed immediately in all diocese and all parishes.

In reading what you wrote, I believe you are absolutely correct!
I stand corrected.

 

[Catholic2003]

robin hood:

In discussions with some Priests and members of Liturgical groups, the reason that they give for the non introduction of Redemptionis Sacramentum in their Parishes is that the local Bishop or National Bishops have not given the ok for the application of this document. They state that any document of this type must be moulded for use by the Bishop for use in their local Diocese.
In my simple way I thought that a Document signed by the Pope like this should be obeyed as soon as possible.And in reading the document the Bishop only comes into play when Parishes do not comply.

Redemptionis Sacramentum is an instruction governed by canon 34:

Canon 34 §1 Instructions, namely, which set out the provisions of a law and develop the manner in which it is to be put into effect, are given for the benefit of those whose duty it is to execute the law, and they bind them in executing the law. Those who have executive power may, within the limits of their competence, lawfully publish such instructions.

§2 The regulations of an instruction do not derogate from the law, and if there are any which cannot be reconciled with the provisions of the law they have no force.

§3 Instructions cease to have force not only by explicit or implicit revocation by the competent authority who published them or by that authority’s superior, but also by the cessation of the law which they were designed to set out and execute.

The duty to execute liturgical law belongs to the diocesan bishops, and thus they are the primary audience of RS under canon law.

 

[Isidore_AK]

Sounds like what I ran into. I attended Mass at a different parish, and afterwards e-mailed the Priest about some ‘issues’ with their mass (specifically kiln fired pottery used for the paten & goblets) I got a vague ‘the Archbishop says its OK’ response. I have been unable to get a reply from the Archbishop as of yet…

 

[TNT]

Isidore_AK:

Sounds like what I ran into. I attended Mass at a different parish, and afterwards e-mailed the Priest about some ‘issues’ with their mass (specifically kiln fired pottery used for the paten & goblets) I got a vague ‘the Archbishop says its OK’ response. I have been unable to get a reply from the Archbishop as of yet…

Yes indeed!
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Ask any US bishop if the SSPX is schismatic in disobedience. The unanimous reply would be “YES”, THE POPE SAID SO".

Do we not have an inverted form of SSPX -ism throughout the US episcopacy?

The USCCB is the “Synod of Hypocrisy”. How about the USSOH"

Your soul’s salvation is NOT their agenda. Obedience to the Pope is NOT their agenda.
YOUR OBEDIENCE TO THEM IS THEIR AGENDA.
Just like the pharisees:
Matthew 23:13 But woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you yourselves do not enter in; and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter.

Pharisees are noted about 85 times in the NT. Of those, about 80 are used by Our Lord. Not one is complimentary. Just maybe He was trying to teach us something? Or was the sorrowful state of religious rulers something that stopped after the ressurrection and would never be a condition in the Church? If so, then about 80 verses in the Bible are NOT for us, and can be discarded.

 

[Sean_O_L]

TNT wrote:

Ask any US bishop if the SSPX is schismatic in disobedience. The unanimous reply would be “YES”, THE POPE SAID SO".

Apples and Oranges, TNT.

Lefebvre and the SSPX rent Catholic Unity in pertinaciously disobeying the Pope’s direct command on a matter involving Apostolic Succession.

Hate the abuses though one does - I doubt that the abuses and/or disobedience involves matters of Faith. Discipline, yes! Faith, No!

The Church would “like” for all priests and bishops to be upright moral persons, exemplary in matters of piety, etc. However, all that is absolutely necessary is for the minister to be validly ordained, use the form and matter required by the Church for validity, and to have the intention (even if it is only a “habitual” intention) to do as the Church does.