refined again

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CeaselessMedik

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I know I’ve posted things like this before, but I’m playing Socrates and refining my argument.

Why didn’t God make us both benevolent and free-willed? I know in the logic of the niverse He zsupposedly created it’s a conflict of definition - but onnly because He made it to be! Besides, being man and God is contradictory, as is being Three and One.
 
CeaselessMedik said:
I know I’ve posted things like this before, but I’m playing Socrates and refining my argument.

Why didn’t God make us both benevolent and free-willed? I know in the logic of the niverse He zsupposedly created it’s a conflict of definition - but onnly because He made it to be! Besides, being man and God is contradictory, as is being Three and One.
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To be free-willed is to be free to choose the good, the bad and the ugly.

What do you mean by"of the niverse He zsupposedly created". Do you not believe that he did?
 
Nope. But that’s what I’m saying - He made the universe in such a way to make us inferior!
 
CeaselessMedik said:
Nope. But that’s what I’m saying - He made the universe in such a way to make us inferior!
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Should he have made us superior to himself? Is that what you mean? Because that would be like a painter painting a picture of the sun setting behind the mountains and it being greater than the original. Do you expect that in all other areas of your life or just from God in his creation of you?
 
CeaselessMedik said:
not greater - equals.
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For God to make an equal to himself would be to contradict his nature, as it would deny his oneness and his perfection. If there are two beings containing all perfections, then they really cannot be perfect–perfection is manifested in oneness.

Seeking to be equal to God is what led to all the trouble in Eden to begin with.

“You will be like gods…” Gen. 3:5

-ACEGC
 
That makes about as much sense as saying being blue means everything else must be partially yellow and/or red. There would be no perfection if God made us equal.
 
CeaselessMedik said:
Why didn’t God make us both benevolent and free-willed?
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He did! But man sinned anyway. Socrates may not have known that, but you do. So you’ll have to build your argument from there. But if you say that the Truth is contradictory, then you won’t get far. Sorry!
 
CeaselessMedik said:
That makes about as much sense as saying being blue means everything else must be partially yellow and/or red. There would be no perfection if God made us equal.
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No, because red, blue, and yellow are accidental qualities of an object. Perfection is an ontological reality. Your comparison is not logically valid. There can only be one perfect being, since perfection is manifested in unity. Think about it. If there were multiple perfect beings, they could not all really be perfect–the pinnacle of being, the standard by which we judge the perfection (i.e. the amount of being) in other things, must exist as one.
 
Why does there have to be only one perfect anything? Who says? God? Well, I’m sure He has His own back.

As for man choosing to sin - if we were made benevolent, we wouldn’t!
 
But if we are made without free will, we cannot be benevolent, since to be benevolent is to will the good of another. The word itself means “well wishing/willing.” So if we were made to be robotic, and always do good, this would be a far lesser state than if we were made with the ability to choose good and always chose good freely. If we were made perfectly benevolent, and always did what was good, then we would be no better than animals or plants–which do not possess free will. Free will is how we can share in the Divine nature, it is what it means to be made in the image of God. We may act freely and exercise reason.

-ACEGC
 
CeaselessMedik said:
I know I’ve posted things like this before, but I’m playing Socrates and refining my argument.

Why didn’t God make us both benevolent and free-willed? I know in the logic of the niverse He zsupposedly created it’s a conflict of definition - but onnly because He made it to be! Besides, being man and God is contradictory, as is being Three and One.
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Depending on your use of the term ‘benevolent’, He did.

If by benevolent you mean ‘able to be loving’, then He certainly did, and we certainly still are.

If by benevolent you mean ‘loving, and unable to hate’, the second part would limit free-will.
 
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CeaselessMedik said:
Why does there have to be only one perfect anything? Who says? God? Well, I’m sure He has His own back!
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Actually, this is a matter of logic (Socrates would be pleased).

The notion of a “perfect” being suggests that there is some standard by which “perfect” is measured or judged. This IS NOT TO SAY that we imperfect humans KNOW this standard, but only that it is out there somewhere. The standard exists, even if we don’t have any idea what it is. If we acknowledge that AT LEAST one being is perfect, we must acknowledge that there is some objective and absolute criteria that defines what a “perfect” being is (even if we do not claim to know that criteria).

The idea of “perfection” means that it is as good as it can possibly be - nothing can possibly be better than perfect. Anything that deviates from the standard of perfection in any way is (by definition) imperfect.

So, if you have two “perfect” beings, they cannot differ in any manner whatsoever. This means they cannot be separate beings (because this would be a difference).

Thus, it is logically impossible for two distinctly separate perfect beings to exist.
 
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