Reformed Charismatic Question

[Scottthestudent]

Hi Everyone,

I am extremely new to these forums, but I have a question. I am a cradle Catholic, and my ex-girlfriend of 6 months is a Reformed Charismatic Protestant. Over our time dating, we both presented our faith as best as we could, and even though we never came to the point where one of us wanted to convert, I felt that we each learned more about God through the relationship.

However, we still want to have a relationship, as we are each what the other is looking for in a spouse except for the religious aspect. If I were to marry her, I would want her to be Catholic. However, she grew up in a strong protestant family, and she still is living with them (last year of college). I found it frustrating to talk with her about religion at times because she has an answer for everything that I would explain about the faith. I think after all our discussions, she thinks the Catholic Church is all about rules and pointless traditions. She believes, as most protestants do, that the Bible is all we need to get to heaven. We simply believe in Jesus dying to save us, accept him as savior, and we are good to go basically. I just never could seem to “stump” her, or at least make her see any flaws in her beliefs, and it was depressing.

Additionally, she posed some questions to me that I did not know the answer to, such as “If Jesus died for us and saved us on the cross, what is the point of Baptism and confession?”

I guess what I am looking for here is a new way to respond to her in the hopes that maybe she can see the truth and we could one day get married? Any sort of advice or resources would be greatly appreciated. I have perused these forums pretty regularly, but I figured I would add my own story on here and get some solid feedback.

Thanks!

 

[DianaCC]

I found it frustrating to talk with her about religion … and it was depressing.

If you marry her this will be the story of the rest of your life. And if you think that’s depressing wait until the children come along.

As for advice, well, you already know the answer so there’s no need for me to repeat it.

 

[Poco]

Hi Everyone,

Additionally, she posed some questions to me that I did not know the answer to, such as “If Jesus died for us and saved us on the cross, what is the point of Baptism and confession?”

Thanks!

Hi,

The short answer to that question is; because Jesus said it was necessary!

I don’t have time list all the bible verses and Early Church Father quotes right now. You might try searching for articles on this site. There’s a lot of good info here! Also, you might consider a beginning apologetics book or CD from someone like Scot Hahn, Patrick Madrid, et.al.

Good luck!

 

[RSD]

Hi Everyone,

I am extremely new to these forums, but I have a question. I am a cradle Catholic, and my ex-girlfriend of 6 months is a Reformed Charismatic Protestant.

However, we still want to have a relationship, as we are each what the other is looking for in a spouse except for the religious aspect. If I were to marry her, I would want her to be Catholic. However, she grew up in a strong protestant family, and she still is living with them (last year of college). I found it frust

Additionally, she posed some questions to me that I did not know the answer to, such as “If Jesus died for us and saved us on the cross, what is the point of Baptism and confession?”

Thanks!

If you love each other, what is the point of trying to be considerate? If you love each other, what is the point of an empty ritual like marriage? If you love each other, than you never need to apologize, or try to improve any behavior, or break any bad habits for each other, right?

Think of Jesus as someone you love as much as a prospective spouse.

 

[NHInsider]

Scott-

If you are serious, then begin by covenanting together that you will each sincerely pray for the other, trusting that God will lead us into Truth. And then, obviously, pray! Ultimately it will be the Holy Spirit who persuades, not you. And since there is One God, not a “Catholic God” and a “Pentecostal God,” you will essentially be agreeing to let Him guide you both.

Having released the desire to convert the other, if you can move away from the “stump the chump” mode of discussion and into more of a sharing/learning mode your conversation will be more fruitful. This means that instead of trying to point out places each thinks the others’ position is wrong, you each talk about what your faith means to you, how your religious practices nurture your faith and draw you closer to God. If your friend sees the joy of the Lord in your life, she will be less easily convinced that your faith is all about external rituals.

It would be good for both of you to read some solid books - ideally, for both of you to read the same book at the same time, and then talk about them. I would encourage you to suggest Alan Schreck’s Catholic and Christian as a starting place, as he goes through most of the usual arguments and he is very charitable in his approach. Mark Shea’s By What Authority, Tom Howard’s Evangelical Isn’t Enough and Scott Hahn’s Rome Sweet Home are also good choices. If you’re not readers, there are lots of good materials available on CD - try Lighthouse Catholic Media.

Pentecostals don’t have a large tradition of apologetic writing but if your beloved doesn’t have something right off that she wants to read with you, you might suggest books by J. P. Moreland, he’s a quite well-respected Pentecostal writer.

 

[inkaneer]

Hi Everyone,

I am extremely new to these forums, but I have a question. I am a cradle Catholic, and my ex-girlfriend of 6 months is a Reformed Charismatic Protestant. Over our time dating, we both presented our faith as best as we could, and even though we never came to the point where one of us wanted to convert, I felt that we each learned more about God through the relationship.

However, we still want to have a relationship, as we are each what the other is looking for in a spouse except for the religious aspect. If I were to marry her, I would want her to be Catholic. However, she grew up in a strong protestant family, and she still is living with them (last year of college). I found it frustrating to talk with her about religion at times because she has an answer for everything that I would explain about the faith. I think after all our discussions, she thinks the Catholic Church is all about rules and pointless traditions. She believes, as most protestants do, that the Bible is all we need to get to heaven. We simply believe in Jesus dying to save us, accept him as savior, and we are good to go basically. I just never could seem to “stump” her, or at least make her see any flaws in her beliefs, and it was depressing.

Additionally, she posed some questions to me that I did not know the answer to, such as “If Jesus died for us and saved us on the cross, what is the point of Baptism and confession?”

I guess what I am looking for here is a new way to respond to her in the hopes that maybe she can see the truth and we could one day get married? Any sort of advice or resources would be greatly appreciated. I have perused these forums pretty regularly, but I figured I would add my own story on here and get some solid feedback.

Thanks!

I find it interesting that this is, as you state, your ex girlfriend. Why do you want to continue a relationship with her? My recommendations are two. First is it is time to move on. Second, you should be better catechized in your faith. As for her seeing any flaws in her beliefs she won’t see any even if they smack her in the face. Never underestimate the ability of the human mind to avoid the truth and to hold onto a lie no matter how much it is proved to be wrong. Here is a test that you can perform. Ask her this:

If, as you say, she believes that the Bible is all we need to get to heaven. Then why did Paul tell the Thessalonians in 2 Thess 2:15 to hold onto not only the written tradition but also the oral tradition. The quote is as follows:

“15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” [2Thess 2:15] [RSV]

If she says that Paul later wrote what he taught orally ask her if she made that up or if she could point out where the Bible says that is what indeed happened. If she points to 2 Timothy 3:16-17:

“16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

Tell her that it says scripture is only profitable and it equips us for good works. Then say to her if she thinks we are saved by good works. Then ask her point blank where does scripture say it saves us. Scripture of course never states that it saves us. Finally ask her if she thinks it may be odd that scripture calls the church the pillar and foundation of truth but makes no such claim for itself. That can be found in 1Ti 3:15:

“15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”

 

[Nicea325]

She believes, as most protestants do, that the Bible is all we need to get to heaven.

Really? Ask her where Jesus or the 12 taught the Bible is all we need to get to Heaven? Oh, ask her which Bible is THE one we need to get to Heaven?

 

[Scottthestudent]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for replying! Sorry it took me so long to get back on here. Finals in college are killer!

Anyways, thank you all for you advice and information. My ex and I decided the only way to move on is to completely stop talking to one another and seeing one another for a while (as long as it takes, I suppose). I think the bottom line is that she is just not open to what I was trying to say, and there is nothing I can do in that situation…it is up to God.

I am finding that moving on is surprisingly difficult though. I have always been able to move on quickly in past relationships, but I suppose this is hard because neither of us wanted it to end. Time heals all wounds though, I suppose.

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[praxising]

nevermind - I shoulda read ahead.