Refused marriage

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slewi

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Hi all! I am wondering if a catholic church can refuse to marry a parishoner because they haven’t ‘given enough’ every week. I give what I can, and I have heard talk that the priest, upon learning of a parishoner’s desire to be married, often crack open the ledger to see what they have given. I can’t see how this would be allowed.

Steve
 
It sounds like something got lost in the translation of this story. Many people give to the community anonymously, just dropping cash in each week. Others are unable to give monetarilly but do give of their time and talents. Perhaps the story was more along the lines of this:

The church restricts marriages to parishioners only. (There are a lot of beautiful, ornate parishes that have to do this as their demand is far greater than their possible supply.) The guy says he is a parishioner. The priest says he never saw him, he’s not participated in any groups, etc. The guy says he’s been coming to Mass there for years. The priest says, “Oh, really? And in all that time, you never registered?” (If you register, your name would be on the envelope list.) “And, funny thing, your name isn’t in here as ever giving a tithe or donation to the church. I’m sorry, sir. Our parish simply cannot handle weddings for non-parishioners.” The guy gets upset, goes and rants about the terrible and unrelenting priest, who opened up the church ledger to see if he donated and based on the fact that he hadn’t, he turned him down.

That type of a scenario would make perfect sense to me.
 
I don’t think a Catholic priest would do such a thing. But I do know that parishes in historic or picturesque places are contacted by non-parishioners to have their wedding there. And most parishes have “Catholics” ask to have weddings, baptisms, or funerals for “Catholics” who are not parishioners and probably haven’t stepped foot in a Catholic church in years. Many parishes (if not all) have separate fees for “parishioners” and “non-parishioners”. Certainly, I would have no problem if part of determining “parishioner” is to consider financial support of the parish. As a generous supporter of my (financially struggling) but historic AND picturesque Catholic church, I would be concerned if this wasn’t a consideration.
 
The parish my husband and I attended together while we were engaged DID say how much they charged to use the church for our wedding depended on how much we gave each week.

We ended up getting married in his parish he had attended all his life before leaving home. It was free AND beautiful.
 
Receiving the Sacrament does not depend upone one’s ability to pay or track record of using envelopes. Remember, all that’s needed is a priest or deacon and two witnesses not a giant ceremony.

What may cost money, or may have restrictions, is the use of the church facilities. My parish has a parishioner and a non-parishioner fee-- both of which are pretty steep. Other parishes have a “registered parishioner only” policy.

However, inability to pay would be discussed privately and I would presume that they would allow the ceremony in the chapel or have some other alternative to those who truly could not pay.
 
A friend of ours who is a priest used to say that it was okay if the envelopes were empty and money was tight. It was more important that he knew you attended Mass. It was a 2000 family parish, so there were a lot of people he never really got to know. I think that’s fair.
 
From the Marriage Policy of the Diocese of Great Falls-Billings:
IV. PROCESS FOR DELAY IN MARRIAGE

If serious difficulties become evident during the course of marriage preparation, a couple may decide or the pastor may recommend to the couple that the proposed marriage should be postponed. Canon 1077 (1) states: In a particular case the local ordinary can prohibit the marriage of his own subjects wherever they are staying and of all persons actually present in his own territory, but only for a time, for a serious cause and as long as the cause exists. A serious cause for delaying a marriage include:
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  1. Code: 
     Non-practice of the Catholic Faith by the Catholic party (parties) with no intention of returning to the practice of the faith;
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  1. Code: 
     Substantial lack of appreciation of the spiritual, sacramental aspects of marriage;
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  1. Code: 
     Substantial evidence of the lack of readiness for marriage due to age, some external pressure, immaturity, or instability (e.g., emotional illness, inability to hold a job, etc.).  The assessment of marriage readiness will include an interview with the couple, the FOCCUS, REFOCCUS or some other suitable tool, and where practical, an interview with both sets of parents;
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  1. Code: 
     Refusal of both parties to take part in the Marriage Preparation program or to participate in pre-marital assessment, evaluation or counseling as deemed necessary for the proper preparation for the reception of the Sacrament.
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  1. Code: 
     Lack of time for sufficient premarriage assessment, evaluation, and counseling.
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  1. Code: 
     Lack of fulfillment of obligations towards a former spouse or towards children born of that union. (c 1071 § 3)
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In these cases, the pastor must make known such a decision to the couple as soon as possible after the initial interview. At the same time, he must notify the Bishop, in writing, of his decision. The couple is to be informed that they have the right to appeal the priest’s decision to the Bishop.
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The decision to delay requires that assistance be given to the couple in order that the reasons for the delay may be alleviated. If necessary, appropriate counseling is to be recommended should the marriage plans terminate.
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In many parishs’ the pastor can not know everyone personaly and know if they are practicing their faith or not. That is the main purpose of having the weekly envelopes to put our donations in the collection basket; if the pastor doesn’t know you, and know that you are a regular Sunday ans Holy day mass participent, he checks the offering book to see if you have been. If you put an envelpoe in every week, then you probably are attending mass (the fact that it also gives you a record for tax purposes is secondary). True there are many who go to mass weekly but don’t put in an envelope; but if the priest doesn’t know you then he may have no way of knowing if you are practicing your faith. By the way he doesn’t care how much you give, in fact even if we can’t aford to give any money, we are encouraged to put in an envelope anyway, just for this reason.

Your pastor will check the book, not just for marriage but also if you need a letter of recommendation to be a godparent or a confirmation sponsor.

Sure it’s not perfect, but what is (certainly not my spelling).
 
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slewi:
Hi all! I am wondering if a catholic church can refuse to marry a parishoner because they haven’t ‘given enough’ every week. I give what I can, and I have heard talk that the priest, upon learning of a parishoner’s desire to be married, often crack open the ledger to see what they have given. I can’t see how this would be allowed.

Steve
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that is the goofiest thing I have ever heard.:rotfl:

oh, wait…

no, the goofiest thing I ever heard was that the Vatican has a computer with everyone’s name in it…
 
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LSK:
no, the goofiest thing I ever heard was that the Vatican has a computer with everyone’s name in it…
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HA! Ditto! Gotta love Chick.
 
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