Regarding Forgiveness

[In_prayer]

Greetings All and Merry Christmas
I have some thoughts on forgiveness and even a question

As Christians and Catholics we are taught from the beginning that we are to forgive others. Christ’s two commandments, if you will, were to love our God with all our heart, and with all our soul, and with all our mind, and to love our neighbor as ourself. We are taught to show our fellows mercy.

As well our Lord’s prayer states among many other amazing things to “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” This leads me to believe on our day of judgment that we will be measured the precise amount of mercy that we show others. If we are hard on others and demand every penny in harm done be repaid then perhaps God will do the same and exact every penny for all transgressions throughout our lives. If on the other hand we are merciful and loving perhaps God will be the same towards us.

Something else we are taught is that if we hope to go to heaven, even if it means being perfected and purified in purgatory first, we must ask for forgiveness. We must have faith (at least believe in Jesus Christ according to protestants), but we must also hope to be forgiven. Others would go so far as to say that if we know these things in our hearts during our lifetime we cannot be lukewarm but must seek grace by helping others, making amends to those we have harmed, and even evangelizing to nonbelievers.

If we do none of these things, if we do not believe, if we do not ask for forgiveness, if we do not do works (faith without works is dead) then our destiny is to go to hell for eternity. That will our judgment. So God does not forgive all things, unless you ASK for, and work towards that.

So my recent thought, and question to all of you is: are we expected to give blanket forgiveness to all who have harmed us if they do not ask for it? Especially, are we expected to forgive those who not only not ask us for it but do not make amends for their harms done? Or continue to harm us or others?

After all, God does not. If we are not repentant we go to hell. For eternity.

Now I know people here are going to immediately respond with “we must forgive all…it is the way.” But think about it, are we really? If the price for merely not even believing in God is eternal damnation, if not seeking forgiveness, not going to reconciliation, not confessing our sins is eternal damnation, then why should we forgive those who have harmed us and not tried to make amends?

I am of course referring to grievous harms like assault and battery, sexual battery, embezzlement etc. If someone has committed those crimes against us then died I’m no longer so sure we are required to pray for their soul. In fact I might be quite content to find they are rotting in hell, after all, if that is what God has in store for those who dont ask for and WORK towards forgiveness why should i?

Any and all comments are welcomed-

In_prayer

 

[JosephDColeman]

I think one thing you are looking past here is the effects forgiving others produces in the one doing the forgiving. Resentment is, in the words of St. Augustine, is “like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.” God is love, and his forgiveness is for our sake, while his commands for us to forgive others is also for our sake. God lacks nothing, and he is selfless. Maybe even the repentance is the first step in healing us. The mind is a deep thing, and to be consumed with bitterness and resentment is hellish indeed. To be truly saintly is to be full of joy. If you harbor resentment, joy is impeded. I often look at how my own life has changed and how I’ve been able to forgive others and realized that I’m actually becoming happier the closer to God I get…and this is separate from any situation I find myself in.

Christ even prayed for those who were crucifying him and they weren’t asking forgiveness at the time. Also, keep in mind that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Think about C.S. Lewis and his thoughts on hell. Hell is locked from the inside. Have you read “the great divorce?” I would recommend that book as it really shows how’s man’s mindset can eventually drive him to a self imposed hell.

God’s ways are mysterious. While we know he demands repentance and asking for forgiveness, he also took the initiative and came to save us before we were penitent or contrite. In my own life, I have seen God “come to get me” so to speak when I was on the verge of death and doing all I could to push Him away.

 

[halogirl]

I was having this chat with my husband just yesterday. We got onto the fact that if Hitler truly repented and threw himself on Gods mercy he could end up in heaven. If God can do that (and He does indeed want that) we too must also work towards wanting the salvation of all and that means forgiving when we don’t want to or don’t see why we should. Sometimes it just means saying ‘God I don’t want to forgive them but I am turning this to You and I am choosing to be like You. I forgive you, person X.’ You don’t have to be ok with what they did, make yourself unsafe or even feel like you forgive them but make that act of will.

 

[BigRon]

There was a Japanese soldier during the war, kind of like Himmler or Mengele. He survived the war to help America with technology or something. He converted to Catholicism before he died.

 

[EloyCraft]

During the first persecutions Roman Christians lived among Roman pagans. Pagan neighbors of Christians found them odd. The pagan’s wrote this about the Christians in the neighborhood. I paraphrase;

" The Christians rejoice when persecuted for the opportunity to forgive knowing that forgiveness adds power to their prayers."

Those Christians had a rich prayer life. One in which Grace was made visible in real time. Can you imagine having experienced the benefits of forgiveness to the degree that they so outway the abuse suffered that one is observably joyfull? To see being victimized as a good rather than an evil. To see a sin against you as an opportunity.

 

[Dan_Defender]

A grudge is a heavy thing to carry. Forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life.

 

[ThisOne]

We must repent of our sin, not “ask for forgiveness.” Repentance, turning back to God, itself is a plea for forgiveness, but forgiveness that we offer to others is not for their benefit, it is for our benefit. When we hold on to injuries and wallow in self-pity and hatred toward the one who injured us, we harm ourselves. God wants us to forgive so that we can be happy and live in the light of His love. It’s that simple.

And the part of the Lord’s Prayer where we ask God to forgive us as we forgive those who trespass against us – we are saying to God that we truly want Him to NOT forgive us unless we can forgive others. We are giving God “permission” to not forgive us if we cannot forgive others. That’s strong stuff!

 

[sainteriksrose]

We’re to forgive trespasses against us, so imo it’s best to pray for everyone.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

So my recent thought, and question to all of you is: are we expected to give blanket forgiveness to all who have harmed us if they do not ask for it? Especially, are we expected to forgive those who not only not ask us for it but do not make amends for their harms done? Or continue to harm us or others?

We are expected to forgive everybody who have harmed us.

We are not to put conditions on forgiveness, such as the person must ask to be forgiven, or the person must “make amends”, or the person must stop what they’re doing. Forgiveness with conditions is not true forgiveness.

I am of course referring to grievous harms like assault and battery, sexual battery, embezzlement etc. If someone has committed those crimes against us then died I’m no longer so sure we are required to pray for their soul.

What’s this “we” stuff? First of all, you don’t get to speak for other people in who they might choose to pray for. This is about you yourself and your own problem with forgiveness.

Second, if you had a hard time praying for someone who battered you, I’m sure God would be understanding that this was a tough area for you, but it does not mean that God loves them any less (he hates the bad act they did, but he loves them), or that they are not deserving of prayers, or that other people shouldn’t pray for them, or that you yourself shouldn’t try to get past this and forgive them.
I realize, and God realizes, that such forgiveness can very hard and I would not go around telling a victim “You MUST forgive”. However, in order to progress in holiness it is generally necessary to at least make an effort to forgive, and a person having a lot of trouble with forgiving in a particular case might discuss it with a priest.

In fact I might be quite content to find they are rotting in hell, after all, if that is what God has in store for those who dont ask for and WORK towards forgiveness why should i?

You’re sounding a lot like the “good son” from the Prodigal Son story, who was not pleased to see his father dancing attendance on the “bad son” when he, the good son, had been working hard at being good and seemingly not getting much in return. Maybe think a little bit more about that parable.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There’s another interpretation to the “camel passing through the eye of a needle” statement, which I was told in Jerusalem, but since the discussion on this thread seems to have taken an unreceptive turn, I will refrain from posting it.

Have a nice day. Happy New Year

 

[goout]

These are all different but related things:
forgiveness
repentance
restitution
absolution

In forgiving someone, we are not responsible for that person’s repentance, restitution, or absolution.
We are called to forgive, seventy times seven. Our forgiveness is not conditioned on another’s actions. Our forgiveness may in fact bring about the desired repentance in another person. If it does not, we have still acted as Christ would act for the good of the other person.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Because it is not for us to judge others.
God asks us to forgive others, just as God forgives us.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And while you’re taking your toys to leave, something you probably do much of the time in your personal life (how does being judged feel?) you can take this with you as well:

I would gently suggest that you please review the terms of service for the forum. You can access them by clicking the three bars in the upper right hand corner and clicking on FAQ. Making these kinds of remarks towards other posters whom you disagree with is generally considered a violation of the forum rules on civility, and can result in adverse moderator action. It’s generally good practice to focus on the content of a post and not be adding extra remarks about the poster, etc.

Edited to add, I thought you were a new poster but I see you have been here since 2016 apparently, my bad. Therefore I edited my post.

 

[goout]

In Christ

Who is Christ?
Christ is God going to the depths of human depravity with his hand stretched out in rescue.
To quote the great theologian Capt Kirk: “to go where no man has gone before”. Literally.
No mere human being is capable of absorbing the depravity of humanity. But Christ shows us the way of radical forgiveness.

This forgiveness is offered to everyone, without condition, no matter what you’ve done.
For forgiveness to be effective in us for salvation, our cooperation is required.
Whether we respond doesn’t seem to be the question here. The question is how are we to forgive. And we are to forgive like Christ.

 

[Beryllos]

If someone has committed those crimes against us then died I’m no longer so sure we are required to pray for their soul.

Jesus commanded us to love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us. Matthew 5:43-48

To love is to will the good of another. What greater good is there than the salvation of your enemy, and who but your enemy could have greater need of your prayers?

In fact I might be quite content to find they are rotting in hell

Trust me, you will rejoice in heaven if you discover that your enemy has made it there too.