Regarding LDS Baptisms of Those of Other Faiths Who Have Passed On......

[ricko]

Each one of us is a unique person and so our names are tied to each of us. Our names and our lifes are therefore under a moral copyright. They belong to us and no-one else and like a copyright should not be used by anyone else for whatever purpose.

 

[Annie_B]

No, I do not believe more about the LDS faith than I admit. But I do feel that it is disrespectful to baptize people Mormon once they have passed on. I am Catholic and wish to remain so. I would hardly call myself “irate” about this issue, but I would not want to all of a sudden be considered Mormon by the LDS church when I die because I was baptized without my consent. They are not just statistics. Catholicism is part of my identity, a part that matters very much to me, and I wish to retain it. And that is most certainly my decision, not the decision of the LDS church.

Being baptized after death in the LDS church does NOT “make” you Mormon, nor does it mean the LDS church considers you Mormon! You must CHOOSE to accept the baptism or not.

Would you still consider yourself Catholic if there were no records whatsoever of your baptism, confirmation etc.? Or, because your name was not on a “list” somewhere in the Catholic church’s archives, would that invalidate any sacraments you received in your lifetime? I would hope not! Our personal actions should mean more than a name on a list that may or may not mean anything.

And yes, a name on a list is just a statistic or it can be nothing at all. Our identity should be “identified” by our beliefs, behaviors and actions.

The RCC still considers me a Catholic because I never “formally” left the church. Does that bother me that my name is still on the “Catholic Roll Call”? Not at all. My identity as a Mormon is based on my daily experiences, beliefs and behaviors; not my name on a list. My name could be on the membership list of every church in the world and it would not change who I am or what I believe!

Annie

 

[Annie_B]

"Your final quote, “for those who believe, no explanation is necessary, for those who don’t believe, no explanation is possible,” is catchy; however, blind faith can allow one to run into walls since it has no sight or sense of direction, faulty footing. Also, if no explanation is necessary, then why create/use the Book of Mormon or even quote it? Why even have the Old and New Testament? "

You are right about blind faith, though I never mentioned blind faith. And to be fair, YOUR argument about “no explanation necessary” begs the question “Why have a pope?” "Why have a catechism? We have the OT, NT, BOM,Popes,Catechisms etc. not to explain our faith, but rather to guide us in it!
Annie

 

[Annie_B]

Each one of us is a unique person and so our names are tied to each of us. Our names and our lifes are therefore under a moral copyright. They belong to us and no-one else and like a copyright should not be used by anyone else for whatever purpose.

Using a name does not automatically denote ownership of that name. Using another’s name for PROFIT is a moral (and legal) “no-no”. If names were copyrighted, then we would all have to have a different name. Now THAT would be hard record to keep and keep track of!
Annie

 

[Jay53]

I find this whole practice disrespectful because there is no option for the deceased or relatives of the deceased to say “NO! I wholeheartedly reject this proxy baptism and everything that Mormonism entails.” Obviously Mormons will say they’re just giving the person this option and maybe the deceased will say no, but to devout Catholics who know that Mormonism is false and know that their relatives would never accept this because they never would have accepted Mormonism while on earth, this proxy baptism listing is kind of like the “last word” because there is obviously no entry afterward to show the rejection of said baptism.

Maybe there should be an option for “Rejection of LDS proxy baptism” Date; Location; that other relatives could submit.

 

[Annie_B]

I find this whole practice disrespectful because there is no option for the deceased or relatives of the deceased to say “NO! I wholeheartedly reject this proxy baptism and everything that Mormonism entails.” Obviously Mormons will say they’re just giving the person this option and maybe the deceased will say no, but to devout Catholics who know that Mormonism is false and know that their relatives would never accept this because they never would have accepted Mormonism while on earth, this proxy baptism listing is kind of like the “last word” because there is obviously no entry afterward to show the rejection of said baptism.

Maybe there should be an option for “Rejection of LDS proxy baptism” Date; Location; that other relatives could submit.

Ok, I will make you a deal; I will go to a devout Catholic who KNOWS (as you put it) about Mormonism if you will go to a devout Mormon who KNOWS about Catholicism.
Seriously though, disgruntled “exes” from any religion are going to give a “truth challenged” view on their former religion, even if they do not fully intend to do so. And by the way, why reject an action that you believe to be invalid in the first place?
Annie

 

[Publisher]

Interesting thread.

I received a call from my brother this week-end. His son and his wife are to be baptized into the Mormon church this coming Saturday. My nephew became interested in the LDS when he was a kid…12 years old…he’s now 29. My brother divorced from his wife and got custody of my nephew when he was 2 years old. My nephew found the LDS church across the street had a very active youth group and a Boy Scout troop. He became involved and wanted to be baptized as a kid. My brother told him when he turns 18 if he still wants to join…more power to him…he’s 29, married with three kids of his own now.

My nephew and his wife have been very active it seems and finally decided to join. His wife is from fundamentalist background…you know…6000-10000 year old Earth, Bible inerrant ONLY in KJV version…etc.

My brother wanted to know if I had family records to copy and send to him for his son. After my nephew and his wife have gone through the probation period to enter into Temple work, as I understand it takes at least a year of faithful attendence and tithe paying to get the “recommend”, they want to begin “work on behalf of the dead”…My nephew wants to be baptized for my Mom and grandparents.

I’m ok with it if he is…they’re in the Presence now anyway…so what harm can it do…if it gives my nephew purpose and peace to do so…wonderful.

 

[Annie_B]

I want to thank everyone for their answers. I understand your passion about your point of view, just as I am passionate about mine.

As the OP to this thread, I think I have gotten enough responses to understand how Catholics (at least the ones here) for the most part feel about this topic.

Thanks again for your (name removed by moderator)ut and I am “opting out” of this topic now. There is no point in getting argumentative about something that was just intended as a question of opinion and a possibly a moment where others can consider if their faith is truly faith or a name on a list. If I was baptized LDS and all my records were lost, I would still be LDS, so a piece of paper or a name on a list is not the substance of my faith.

Thanks again to all who posted -
Annie

 

[CHRISTINE77]

How do Mormons pick people to baptize after they are dead?

From what I have heard some relative, distant or no, must request it.

How do Mormons know that person is worthy of baptism? Maybe that person was a really evil person who belongs in outer darkness.

 

[Jay53]

Ok, I will make you a deal; I will go to a devout Catholic who KNOWS (as you put it) about Mormonism if you will go to a devout Mormon who KNOWS about Catholicism.
Seriously though, disgruntled “exes” from any religion are going to give a “truth challenged” view on their former religion, even if they do not fully intend to do so. And by the way, why reject an action that you believe to be invalid in the first place?
Annie

Probably just as a statement that it is not valid and a confirmation of Mormonism being false. Why are the Mormons doing it anyway - because they believe it can have an effect. Like I said, it’s kind of like a “last word” in edgewise kind of thing. The Mormons perform the baptism and say well maybe the deceased will accept it, while a devout Catholic would say unequivocally, no I do not accept that, but there is no one to say that and speak for them in these records. So the last word is “the offer has been made and we don’t know if they accept it or not - maybe they did”. I would want my descendants to know that unequivocally I would never accept Mormonism as truth.

I have no idea what your statement about disgruntled “exes” is about. Was that directed at me or one of my posts?

 

[gnoa]

"Your final quote, “for those who believe, no explanation is necessary, for those who don’t believe, no explanation is possible,” is catchy; however, blind faith can allow one to run into walls since it has no sight or sense of direction, faulty footing. Also, if no explanation is necessary, then why create/use the Book of Mormon or even quote it? Why even have the Old and New Testament? "

You are right about blind faith, though I never mentioned blind faith. And to be fair, YOUR argument about “no explanation necessary” begs the question “Why have a pope?” "Why have a catechism? We have the OT, NT, BOM,Popes,Catechisms etc. not to explain our faith, but rather to guide us in it!
Annie

Annie,

Actually, it was your argument, your quote, that begs the question. What you have done is created a red herring by bringing up the Pope. The Papacy was is established by Christ himself, starting with the Rock, Simon Peter. The Catechism acts as learning/teaching tool about the faith and as a guide to Church teaching.

Please, take the time to examine scholarly sources outside the Catholic and LDS churches to see the history of Christianity and the various denominations. If you do, I’m sure that some things may come as a shock.

On a side note
I do have a second cousin who is a Bishop in the Mormon Church, has a Master’s Degree in History, and used to teach part-time at Bringham Young. Every time I bring up academically accepted historical evidence to counter his arguments, he shuts down and changes topics to something other than religion. To use an old cliche, the proof is in the pudding.

God bless you on your faith journey Annie. I pray that God grants you the grace to find your way back home to the One, True, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Sincerely, in Christ,