Regarding the full text of the Te Deum

[GloriousOrder]

Friends , I want to set music to the Te Deum to thank God for a friend’s ordination. The problem is that several sources give conflicting lengths for the text. Historians tell us that the actual Ambrosian hymn ends on the words “make them (your servants) to be numbered among your saints in everlasting glory”. The entire block of text from “Save your people, Lord” to “In you I have trusted, oh Lord; never let me be confounded” is said to be a “later addition”, but I haven’t found any more information on that claim. Was the final prayer of the Te Deum added on 100 years after the original? 500? 1000?

As an aside, I’d also like to ask which English translation is accepted by the English-speaking Roman Catholic Church. Would it be disobedient to use the 1962 English translation (which is full of "thee"s and "thy"s, and which I find very beautiful)? In other words: should I follow a particular musical-liturgical text on this wondrous hymn? Your help is appreciated…

 

[John_Lilburne]

The Te Deum is a part of the Liturgy of the Hours. The rubric for it has “This hymn is said after the second responsory at The Office of Readings on all Sundays outside Lent, and on Solemnities and Feasts.” After the line: “Grant us with the saints a place in eternal glory.” there is a footnote: “The last part of the hymn may be omitted.” (Divine Office Volume 1, published by E.J. Dwyer, Sydney, 1974, ISBN 085574233X, pages [6] - [7]).

I am not sure which English translation of the Latin is approved for Canada. But there will be an approved translation, and that is what should be used.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Friends , I want to set music to the Te Deum to thank God for a friend’s ordination. The problem is that several sources give conflicting lengths for the text. Historians tell us that the actual Ambrosian hymn ends on the words “make them (your servants) to be numbered among your saints in everlasting glory”. The entire block of text from “Save your people, Lord” to “In you I have trusted, oh Lord; never let me be confounded” is said to be a “later addition”, but I haven’t found any more information on that claim. Was the final prayer of the Te Deum added on 100 years after the original? 500? 1000?

As an aside, I’d also like to ask which English translation is accepted by the English-speaking Roman Catholic Church. Would it be disobedient to use the 1962 English translation (which is full of "thee"s and "thy"s, and which I find very beautiful)? In other words: should I follow a particular musical-liturgical text on this wondrous hymn? Your help is appreciated…

I do not know if this helps. I noticed you’re in Canada. I found this text for the Te Deum on your bishops’ website:

**Praise is yours, O God, forever;
yours all homage, Lord, alone.
Earth itself, eternal Father
bows in awe before your throne.
Angel powers sound your glory:
Holy, Holy God of hosts!
Holy, Holy God of hosts!

Glory-crown’d apostles praise you.
White-robed martyrs shout your name.
Prophet voices give you honour.
Earthly church joins laud acclaim.
Praise is yours, almighty Father,
with the Son, and Spirit one,
with the Son, and Spirit one.

You, O Christ enthroned triumphant,
God the Father’s only Son,
scorning not our human nature,
earth defeated, vict’ry won.
By your blood you brought redemption:
Grant us glory with your saints.
Grant us glory with your saints.

Come, now, Lord, to save your people,
bless the flock you call your own.
Day by day we sound your praises,
evermore your name make known.
Keep us in your mercy always:
Lord, in you our hope is sure!
Lord, in you our hope is sure!**

 

[OraLabora]

The entire block of text from “Save your people, Lord” to “In you I have trusted, oh Lord; never let me be confounded” is said to be a “later addition”, but I haven’t found any more information on that claim. Was the final prayer of the Te Deum added on 100 years after the original? 500? 1000?

I don’t think it’s clearly known. They are psalmic verses. They were made optional in the LOTH because the Office of Readings can now be said at any time of the day, and the words "Dignare Domine die isto,sine peccato nos custodire " were considered to be an appropriate petition for a morning hour (“Keep us today, Lord, from all sin.”) and less relevant if the hymn were sung later in the day (arbitrarily: after mid-day).

This link might help: Te Deum

 

[GloriousOrder]

I do not know if this helps. I noticed you’re in Canada. I found this text for the Te Deum on your bishops’ website:

…

Thank you very much for giving me that. I didn’t even think to look at the C.C.C.B. website! To be honest, that translation is problematic for me as a composer. For one, I believe the Church made it clear several times that such music should be through-composed, and lines should not be repeated for the sake of making a chorus effect. This translation you have put in bold does just that. In addition, the lines about prophets and martyrs praising God have been switched, and several words have been added to the actual text.

I wonder if one must use this translation in Canadian liturgy, or whether it’s optional. This is only a concern because I want to be as close to the original hymn as it was known to the very martyrs, prophets, and saints who died for what it says. I don’t want to set a Te Deum that actually adds words, repeats lines, and switches them about. The order was set, I thought… Anyway, since Sacrosanctum Concilium says that all liturgical prayers and music focused on the people (i.e. the Creed?) ought to be vernacular, but prayers and music addressed to God (i.e. the Te Deum?) ought to be in Latin. Since Te Deum is a hymn of thanksgiving to our Lord, perhaps I should just use the Latin text and avoid the wacky translations…

OraLabora, I thank you for the link. Interviews are always a good source of information!

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Thank you very much for giving me that. I didn’t even think to look at the C.C.C.B. website! To be honest, that translation is problematic for me as a composer. For one, I believe the Church made it clear several times that such music should be through-composed, and lines should not be repeated for the sake of making a chorus effect. This translation you have put in bold does just that. In addition, the lines about prophets and martyrs praising God have been switched, and several words have been added to the actual text.

I wonder if one must use this translation in Canadian liturgy, or whether it’s optional. This is only a concern because I want to be as close to the original hymn as it was known to the very martyrs, prophets, and saints who died for what it says. I don’t want to set a Te Deum that actually adds words, repeats lines, and switches them about. The order was set, I thought… Anyway, since Sacrosanctum Concilium says that all liturgical prayers and music focused on the people (i.e. the Creed?) ought to be vernacular, but prayers and music addressed to God (i.e. the Te Deum?) ought to be in Latin. Since Te Deum is a hymn of thanksgiving to our Lord, perhaps I should just use the Latin text and avoid the wacky translations…

OraLabora, I thank you for the link. Interviews are always a good source of information!

There was a different version. I gave you the one I did because it said it was the version that had to be sung. They give this version too:

You are God: we praise you;
You are the Lord: we acclaim you;
You are the eternal Father:
All creation worships you.
To you all angels, all the powers of heaven,
Cherubim and Seraphim, sing in endless praise:
Holy, holy, holy, God of power and might,
heaven and earth are full of your glory.
The glorious company of apostles praise you.
The noble fellowship of prophets praise you.
The white-robed army of martyrs praise you.
Throughout the world the holy Church acclaims you:
Father, of majesty unbounded,
your true and only Son, worthy of all worship,
and the Holy Spirit, advocate and guide.
You, Christ, are the king of glory,
the eternal Son of the Father.
When you became man to set us free
you did not spurn the Virgin’s womb.
You overcame the sting of death,
and opened the kingdom of heaven to all believers.
You are seated at God’s right hand in glory.
We believe that you will come, and be our judge.
Come then, Lord, and help your people,
bought with the price of your own blood,
and bring us with your saints
to glory everlasting.
Save your people, Lord, and bless your inheritance.
Govern and uphold them now and always.
Day by day we bless you.
We praise your name for ever.
Keep us today, Lord, from all sin.
Have mercy on us, Lord, have mercy.
Lord, show us your love and mercy;
for we put our trust in you.
In you, Lord, is our hope;
and we shall never hope in vain.