Regarding thoughts that arouse

[Stylus]

Having a rather passionate nature, is doesn’t take much for me to think of something that causes arousel. Sometimes even thinking of an attractive man who I know is enough. Battling with my consience over this I’ve often read books and asked people about when is it a sin, a mortal sin, or no sin at all. I’m getting too many different responses.

One source: 'If the thought is only slightly arousing, then it is a venial sin. If it causes strong arousal, it is a mortal sin.

Other source: ‘Anything which arouses those passions is a serious matter.’

Another source: ‘It is sinful if it is done to bring on sexual gratificatoin.’

This is the most frusttrating thing in the world. My body is only reacting naturally but it could lead me to commit a serious sin??

And please. I am seeking good helpful advice and enlightenment. This has caused a lot of conscience problems for me. Some people here tend to only worsen it by mentioning ‘Sin, hell, judgement.’ I need to learn what is wrong and what is not in this case, and not race to confessoin in terror every time I think I’ve sinned.

 

[trumpet152]

One of my professors put it this way, “When you turn the picture into a video, it’s lust.” In other words, simply being aroused isn’t wrong. Being tempted isn’t wrong. But taking that temptation and dwelling on it is wrong. You will know when you’ve crossed the line. It’s a willful thing. If an attractive guy accidentally comes in contact with you and you are aroused, think “Wow. God did a good job making him.” and move on. Dwelling on the fact that he is attractive isn’t sin.

Just remember that lust is a choice. You don’t accidentally commit that crime. So if you didn’t choose to see or think about something, you didn’t sin.

 

[12345678]

1. Thoughts may come. As long as you reject them rather than entertaining them you are fine.
2. If you do purposely entertain the thought, and experience arousal/sensations due to this, then it is considered to be making use of sexual pleasures outside the act, and it would be considered grave matter. If it is grave matter, you are purposely consenting, and you have full knowledge, then it would be a mortal sin.

My advice, don’t try to find the fine line. Try to reject these thoughts as soon as they come. If you fall, go to confession fast. If you aren’t sure, go to confession if at all possible and be completely honest with the priest. Every time we commit a sin and go and confess it we receive grace to help us fight that sin.

Also, be careful with what you look at, read, etc. These may be sources of impure thoughts.

 

[12345678]

trumpet152:

Just remember that lust is a choice

Also, putting yourself in a situation in which you know you will lust is allowing yourself to lust.

 

[Rejoice]

It’s not a sin unless you choose to entertain the thought. If you are instantly aroused by a passing thought that you didn’t initiate, that’s no fault of yours and you can in good conscience go about the rest of your day.

But you need to make sure that as soon as you notice the thought, the arousal, you don’t give into the temptation to linger there because it’s enjoyable. Here is where the danger lies, because you would at this point be taking God’s sacred gift of sexuality and misusing it by removing it from its proper context: the covenantal Sacrament of Marriage, in which love culminates in a union allowing husband and wife to share in God’s creation via procreation – love so real that it becomes a new person. (This is a wonderful reflection of the Trinitarian mystery.)

Even while the impetus may be no fault of your own, what you chose to do after the occasion of sin presents itself is your responsibility. Try praying for God’s help whenever you need the strength to extricate yourself from your passions.

I just posted in another thread about my story along these lines. Here’s a link if you’re interested: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=81894

 

[Stylus]

12345678:

1. If you do purposely entertain the thought, and experience arousal/sensations due to this, then it is considered to be making use of sexual pleasures outside the act, and it would be considered grave matter.
   QUOTE]

What if you are dating an attracitve man, and taking his hand or hugging him causes arousal. I don’t think we’re expected to completely hold back from everything that’s romatically enjoyable.

 

[Stylus]

The thing that bothers me the most about this is that it should not be SO EASY to commit a mortal sin. I can easily avoid the others…go to Mass on Sunday. No problem. Don’t eat meat on Fridays in Lent. No problem. Very easy to avoid. But the fact that I am naturally attracted to romantic thoughts, but I’m not supposed to think about it is what’s frustrating.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Stylus:

The thing that bothers me the most about this is that it should not be SO EASY to commit a mortal sin. I can easily avoid the others…go to Mass on Sunday. No problem. Don’t eat meat on Fridays in Lent. No problem. Very easy to avoid. But the fact that I am naturally attracted to romantic thoughts, but I’m not supposed to think about it is what’s frustrating.

Romance and lust are two different things. I totally understand where you are coming from when you talk about one feeling aroused by an attractive man she is dating. Of course she finds this man attractive, and it also makes sense that she wants to “be one” with that man. But she can’t do that until they are married and waiting for that day is truly difficult. Seriously, I know, I was waiting up until a couple of months ago.

All of that considered, she must not seek arousal and avoid situations that she knows will lead to it. For some people, myself included, that means limiting physical contact. If she does all this and still becomes aroused, it is not a sin but she should not entertain any thoughts or act on it in anyway.

God bless.

 

[12345678]

ElizabethAnne:

Romance and lust are two different things. I totally understand where you are coming from when you talk about one feeling aroused by an attractive man she is dating. Of course she finds this man attractive, and it also makes sense that she wants to “be one” with that man. But she can’t do that until they are married and waiting for that day is truly difficult. Seriously, I know, I was waiting up until a couple of months ago.

All of that considered, she must not seek arousal and avoid situations that she knows will lead to it. For some people, myself included, that means limiting physical contact. If she does all this and still becomes aroused, it is not a sin but she should not entertain any thoughts or act on it in anyway.

God bless.

That’s what I meant.

 

[Allen537]

Stylus:

Having a rather passionate nature, is doesn’t take much for me to think of something that causes arousel. Sometimes even thinking of an attractive man who I know is enough. Battling with my consience over this I’ve often read books and asked people about when is it a sin, a mortal sin, or no sin at all. I’m getting too many different responses.

One source: 'If the thought is only slightly arousing, then it is a venial sin. If it causes strong arousal, it is a mortal sin.

Other source: ‘Anything which arouses those passions is a serious matter.’

Another source: ‘It is sinful if it is done to bring on sexual gratificatoin.’

This is the most frusttrating thing in the world. My body is only reacting naturally but it could lead me to commit a serious sin??

And please. I am seeking good helpful advice and enlightenment. This has caused a lot of conscience problems for me. Some people here tend to only worsen it by mentioning ‘Sin, hell, judgement.’ I need to learn what is wrong and what is not in this case, and not race to confessoin in terror every time I think I’ve sinned.

It is my understanding that it is only a mortal sin if you entertain the sinful thoughts. If you dismiss them right away, then you haven’t committed a mortal sin.

 

[kage_ar]

Jewish friend of mine puts it this way “You can’t stop the birds from flying over your head. You CAN stop the birds from making a nest in your hair.”

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

From what you say, though I am young, I would infer it to be venial.

The reason would be “full consent of the will”. Is there an internal conflict? If there is, and you wish to remain there, know you musn’t, remove yourself, go back, remove again, return, et cetera, than there was no mortal sin.

If you, however, decide to commit the sin, no doubts, and dwell on the thought, knowing it is wrong, but make no attempt to extricate yourself from the thoughts, then what you have done is mortal.

Note that attempt to extricate doesn’t mean saying, “Oh, I shouldn’t think this…I give up”. It means an actual unwillingness to entertain the desire, a true conflict, not a feigned one. This would be a conflict of your will.

The reason I say this is, yes, it sounds all-right on paper, instantaneous dismissal of the thought. In practise, however, this is not always so cut-and-dry.

 

[trumpet152]

Romance is completely permissable. The greatest romance of all is between Jesus and the Church, and this is lust free. Personally, I love romance.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

Stylus:

Having a rather passionate nature, is doesn’t take much for me to think of something that causes arousel. Sometimes even thinking of an attractive man who I know is enough. Battling with my consience over this I’ve often read books and asked people about when is it a sin, a mortal sin, or no sin at all. I’m getting too many different responses.

Ok, I know that this may not address your specific question about the “category” of sin that certain levels of things would fall into, but you should think it’s good advice from a Saint::

p. 262 in my TAN publication of “Intro. to the Devout Life” by St. Francis de Sales, “How to Remedy Such (small) Temptations”
Treat such assaults, then, with contempt, and do not even condescend to inquire what they mean, but let them hum and buzz about your ears as they will, and attend to them no more than you would to flies; and even if they sting you, do not let them remain in your heart, be content with simply driving them away; neither fighting with them, nor parleying with them, but merely making contrary acts - above all, acts of the love of God… the Evil One, when he sees that his temptations only provoke us the more to that Divine love, he will cease to attack us.

Maybe you don’t consider the temptations/allurememts you refer to to be small or trifling ones, but I know for me, they typically start out that way, and that’s the time to brush them away. Perform an act of love, or recite a particular prayer to turn your heart to God, and go on with life.

 

[Stylus]

Servus Pio XII:

The reason would be “full consent of the will”. Is there an internal conflict? If there is, and you wish to remain there, know you musn’t, remove yourself, go back, remove again, return, et cetera, than there was no mortal sin.

That’s almost exactly what the case was. I’ve spent the last two days asking my self if I really commited a mortal sin. Thing is I just recently found out that I should not be thinking these thoughts at all, and it’s been very very difficult to give them up.

 

[cynic]

1.
2. If you do purposely entertain the thought, and experience arousal/sensations due to this, then it is considered to be making use of sexual pleasures outside the act, and it would be considered grave matter. If it is grave matter, you are purposely consenting, and you have full knowledge, then it would be a mortal sin.

.

What is wrong with that if the thoughts are about your spouse? Where does your church say that “making use of sexual pleasures outside the act” is morally wrong? is a husband and wife hugging wrong, kissing wrong? cause that all causes arousal. Is thinking about these things immediately prior to and afterwards (or even during) the act also a sin?

 

[Ruthie]

Stylus, I hope I can help.

My husband of 8 years and I are new converts to Catholicism. Because I made a teenage mistake and married right out of high school, we now have to live as brother and sister until the Church declares my teenage mistake null.

So I am living with the man I love on all levels, with whom I have done the marriage act many times with joy. But, at this point, to allow myself to lust after him would be wrong.

(I’m talking about lust that leads to the full giving of the act; lust within romantic love. Not lust that leads to objectifying the other person and running a porn tape in your head.)

The lust itself is morally neutral. And it certainly isn’t wrong to have desire for one’s spouse. In my situation, though, we have to wait for word from the Church before we can be husband and wife again.

When desire comes up, rather than telling myself that it is wrong, I sort of file it for future reference. “Wrong now, right later.”

Couldn’t you do that, too?

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

That’s almost exactly what the case was. I’ve spent the last two days asking my self if I really commited a mortal sin. Thing is I just recently found out that I should not be thinking these thoughts at all, and it’s been very very difficult to give them up.

If you have to think about that, and it is objective like that (i.e. not absolute, such as killing someone or missing Mass), than a good rule-of-thumb is that you didn’t. Go to confession, definately. Frequently. Confess them, and ask the confessor of the gravity thereof.

My advice, however, is that: tu sut semper potest consulere Deus. The translation of course being: You always are able to consult God. This means to pray about it, ask for intercession, purity of thought, and guidance. If you haven’t got one, get a Scapular (I believe the Carmelites give them out for free). Ths Scapular helps one to encourage good thoughts and to negate negative ones (heh, negate negatives hah!) , through the intercession of Our Lady .

My prayers shall be with you.

God Bless you chap!

 

[Stylus]

Servus Pio XII:

If you have to think about that, and it is objective like that (i.e. not absolute, such as killing someone or missing Mass), than a good rule-of-thumb is that you didn’t. Go to confession, definately. Frequently. Confess them, and ask the confessor of the gravity thereof.

Thanks. I am going to go to confession but it’s a relief to think I may not need to be feeling as horrible as I do.