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Chazemataz
Guest
The bible hints about reincarnation.
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bibleman
Guest
it depends on how you interperatate it, some may belive its refering to the afterlife
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Rand_Al_Thor
Guest
Peace be with you!
Did the Church actually teach reincarnation? I’ve never heard that before. Besides, the Bible also says that “it is destined for man to die once, and then be judged” or something along those lines. These people seem to be confusing God’s omnisience and the final resurrection as reincarnation.
In Christ,
Rand
Did the Church actually teach reincarnation? I’ve never heard that before. Besides, the Bible also says that “it is destined for man to die once, and then be judged” or something along those lines. These people seem to be confusing God’s omnisience and the final resurrection as reincarnation.
In Christ,
Rand
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Ahimsa
Guest
Karma simply means “what we have created”; the root of karma is “kri”, which is directly related to the Latin and English “create”. Karma refers to the fact that our actions have consequences that we will experience either sooner or later. By this definition, the Bible, one could argue, teaches karma, since the Bible teaches that one’s actions will shape one’s future destiny.
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Ahimsa
Guest
Rand Al'Thor:
The Church as a whole didn’t teach reincarnation, but there was at least one Church Father (Origen) who believed in the pre-existence of souls in heaven, souls that eventually fell from heaven and took human birth. The goal of Christianity was to then lead the fallen souls back to heaven. The fact that the 5th Ecumenical Council of 553 declared as anathema belief in the pre-existence of the soul indicates that the idea was fairly widespread among certain Christian communities.
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nkelly
Guest
Hello all,
If reincarnation were true, then why did God send his only son to die for us? With reincarnation, Christ’s redemptive sacrifice wouldn’t have been necessary and we would be in control of our own salvation.
I believe reincarnation is a creation of Satan designed to lure us into a false sense of security. It makes you think that if you mess up this life, you get endless chances.
See Hebrews 9:27
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment:”
See also:
catholic.com/library/Reincarnation.asp
religion-cults.com/Eastern/Hinduism/hindu6a.htm
christian-faith.com/religion/reincarnation.html
velocity.net/~edju/web/SoulSleep3.htm
Regards,
Noel.
If reincarnation were true, then why did God send his only son to die for us? With reincarnation, Christ’s redemptive sacrifice wouldn’t have been necessary and we would be in control of our own salvation.
I believe reincarnation is a creation of Satan designed to lure us into a false sense of security. It makes you think that if you mess up this life, you get endless chances.
See Hebrews 9:27
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment:”
See also:
catholic.com/library/Reincarnation.asp
religion-cults.com/Eastern/Hinduism/hindu6a.htm
christian-faith.com/religion/reincarnation.html
velocity.net/~edju/web/SoulSleep3.htm
Regards,
Noel.
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aridite
Guest
The Church has always taught that sin is punished and righteousness rewarded – but this is according to the mercy and justice of God. Rewards/punishments are the results of the actions of a personal God. Karma is an impersonal “law of nature.” While there is some basic similarity, it is misleading to equate them.
The Church has always taught reincarnation for the administration of rewards and punishments – it is the one resurrection of the dead.
We (or our souls) could not have existed in heaven as angels prior to our conception as humans because a separated soul is not an angel, and the soul of a human is made for a human body. Angels are not human beings and one cannot “become” another any more than a dog can become a cat or a dog’s soul can become a cat’s soul. If pre-existence was condemned at Constantanople, it does not mean the belief was wide-spread. Even if it was wide-spread (as Arianism was) it does not mean that it is the truth of the Catholic faith.
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Ahimsa
Guest
In Hinduism, karma isn’t simply impersonal. Hinduism does contain the idea that personal Gods are active in rewarding or punishing people after death. Of course, Hindu ideas of karma contain ideas distinctive to Hinduism, but the basic idea of a person having to answer for his or her deeds in the future, is common to both religions, I think.
Yep, reincarnation is no stranger to Christianity.
I’m not sure if Origen argued that humans were angels in pre-existence. Maybe humans were simply in a more purified state, closer to the angels, but not angels per se.
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aridite
Guest
Except that in Christianity there is only one reincarnation (resurrection) and one judgement at the end of human history. I believe Hinduism denies there is an end to human history and that there is only one reincarnation.Yep, reincarnation is no stranger to Christianity.
If a spiritual substance had never had a body, then it is not a human soul. A human soul cannot pre-exist its body any more than the shape of a particular statue can pre-exist that statue. Souls are souls because they make (or made) bodies to be alive; if something is created apart from a body, it is not a soul. Separated souls are in an unnatural state – that is why it is fitting, but not necessary, that God give the extraordinary grace of reuniting the souls of the dead with their bodies in the (one time only) resurrection of the dead.
I don’t understand why you are trying to make Hindus into crypto-Christians and say that Hinduism teaches what the Catholic faith does. The two religions are significantly different, and the differences of each ought to be respected. Are not the Upanishads sufficient to assert their unique positions without having to invent support for them from the Bible? I think it is a disservice to both Hinduism and Christianity to confuse the two.
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Liberian
Guest
Corey,
I’ve read that page, although I haven’t looked at all the passages that it just refers to. The “hints” given on the page are very cryptic, so cryptic that I would say that they exist largely in the mind of the reader. For example, how do you get reincarnation out of “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man”?
A lot of the verses cited on that page say the Bible supports “karma,” which is very different from reincarnation. I always thought karma was a kind of predestination, and it is certainly possible (without the Church’s guidance) to get predestination out of the Bible.
- Liberian
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Verbum
Guest
The whole point of reincarnation is that you get more than one chance to perfect yourself. The whole point of Christianity is that you get only once chance and if you squander it you’re doomed for eternity. If you take advantage of it, you got it made for eternity.
The pre-existence of souls is intimately linked with reincarnation. If the soul has an independent existence from the body, it is the “real” person and can be “assigned” a body any number of times. The body is only the “container” for the soul.
Christian doctrine is that the created as the body is born and with the body constitutes a distinct and irreplaceable unit. In scholastic terminology, the soul is the “form” of the body. It is what gives it a distinct personality. When we die, the soul is temporily separated from the body, but remains “ordained” to it and is incomplete without it. Because of this, some believe that our resurrection can be proven from reason.
Verbum
The pre-existence of souls is intimately linked with reincarnation. If the soul has an independent existence from the body, it is the “real” person and can be “assigned” a body any number of times. The body is only the “container” for the soul.
Christian doctrine is that the created as the body is born and with the body constitutes a distinct and irreplaceable unit. In scholastic terminology, the soul is the “form” of the body. It is what gives it a distinct personality. When we die, the soul is temporily separated from the body, but remains “ordained” to it and is incomplete without it. Because of this, some believe that our resurrection can be proven from reason.
Verbum
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Ahimsa
Guest
Whether Hinduism and Christianity are significantly different as to be incompatible, depends on the type of Hinduism or Christianity you’re referring to.
Some Hindus venerate Mary and Jesus; some Christians practice Zen. Doctrine is always incompatible, but not all Christians make doctrine the essence of Christianity.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
I think you meant to say, Christian doctrine is that the soul is created at conception…
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aridite
Guest
Oh! So you’re saying there is more than one Hinduism, more than one Christianity. More than one truth? There is only one resurrection and many reincarnations? There is an end to human history and human history has no end? Interesting ideas.Whether Hinduism and Christianity are significantly different as to be incompatible, depends on the type of Hinduism or Christianity you’re referring to.
I think I’ll stick with the gospels as written. Thanks.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
According to Webster’s Dictionary, Reincarnation is the rebirth of a soul in another body. If as others say, that the Council condemned the pre-existance of the human soul before the existance of its original physical body, this is not about reincarnation but about incarnation. The New Testament is pretty clear “it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Hebrews 9:27), as described in story Jesus told of the rich man and poor Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)
Elijah did not die but was assumed bodily into heaven (2 Kings 2:11). This refers to his return from heaven in the same body. This is not reincarnation.
John the Baptist denied being Elijah [Elias]. (John 1:21) How do we reconcile these apparent contradictions? John the Baptist is described as going “in the spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), in much the same way that Elisha inherited “a double portion of your [Elijah’s] spirit” (2 Kings 2:9). Elisha was a contemporary of Elijah so no reincarnation was involved there. Since Elijah has not died yet, no reincarnation was involved with John the Baptist either. Like Elisha before him, what John the Baptist received was the same gifts of prophetic spirit and power that Elijah had.
John the Baptist was a contemporary of Jesus so this could only mean they thought John the Baptist had been raised from the dead, resurrected. Elias [Elijah] never died but was assumed bodily into heaven so this meant they thought Elijah had returned from heaven. Jeremias and the other prophets had died and some people thought one of them “was risen” from the dead, resurrected. (Luke 9:19) However, even these opinions were wrong. As Peter confesses, Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus is no mere mortal man, he is and always has been divine. (John 1:1-18)
See comments on Matt 11:14, above.
In the next verse, John 9:3, Jesus answered these mistaken notions , “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him.” No reincarnation here.
Paul often refers to those he converted to the Christian faith as his children. When he says, “I travail in birth again,” he means, metaphorically, that he must now work to reconvert his former converts who had fallen for the false doctrines of false teachers. No reincarnation here.
This “first resurrection” probably refers to the events surrounding the death and resurrection of Jesus where we read in Matthew 27:51-53:
And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
This is about resurrection, dead bodies coming back to life, not reincarnation, the soul being reborn in another body.
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Chazemataz
Guest
Where can you find Biblical proof that there was a predestination? Mormons teach that, and if they are right, then everybody else is in big trouble.
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Ahimsa
Guest
Here’s a site that quotes early Church Fathers (among others) regarding reincarnation.
The author of this essay goes a bit overboard in some cases. He relies upon Josephus as an accurate source of Phariseean or Essene beliefs. Instead, what the Pharisees, for instance, meant by “reincarnation” we would call “resurrection” (though the resurrection is, technically, a form of reincarnation, nonetheless). And the author includes pre-existence of souls as a type of reincarnation, so watch out for that too.
The author of this essay goes a bit overboard in some cases. He relies upon Josephus as an accurate source of Phariseean or Essene beliefs. Instead, what the Pharisees, for instance, meant by “reincarnation” we would call “resurrection” (though the resurrection is, technically, a form of reincarnation, nonetheless). And the author includes pre-existence of souls as a type of reincarnation, so watch out for that too.
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