Reincarnation - How do I refute this?

[Donna]

Hi,

A Catholic co-worker has a good heart but her head is in the wrong place. I don’t have all of the answers because I’m learning them myself.

Her latest question is about reincarnation. She thinks we could be reincarnated. Please educate me on the Churches teachings and any references in the bible.

God Bless,
Donna

 

[martino]

This person will have you running in cirlces for the rest of your life if you let her. One important thing to keep in mind is this; whenever someone makes a positive assertion (i.e. reincarnation exists) then the burden of proof is on them. I know you want to help as much as you can but you do not have to disprove every ridiculous claim that someone comes up with. I would turn things around and ask her why she believes in reincarnation and what proof can she offer for it. Then you may want to disprove some the evidence she puts forth.

Also, let her know that she is in opposition to 2,000 plus years of Church teaching.

 

[thechrismyster]

I’ve always had a problem with the math… population growth and such.

 

[jrabs]

thechrismyster:

I’ve always had a problem with the math… population growth and such.

Nice. I like that answer!

 

[Strider]

Try showing her Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgement, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many. will appear a second time…
That should satisfy a Catholic, and it’s fairly painless.

God bless,

 

[rossum]

jrabs:

Nice. I like that answer!

You may like it, but I suggest thay you do not try it in real life. There are six possible destinations after death: hell, ghost, animal, human, asura and god. The maths works out just fine.

rossum

 

[RobedWithLight]

Donna:

Hi,

A Catholic co-worker has a good heart but her head is in the wrong place. I don’t have all of the answers because I’m learning them myself.

Her latest question is about reincarnation. She thinks we could be reincarnated. Please educate me on the Churches teachings and any references in the bible.

God Bless,
Donna

Reincarnation simply says that after death, we come back by being born in a new body, which is basically some form of cosmic recycling.

This doctrine is very attractive and soothing to many people because it satisfies and ensures the basic human longing for immortality while avoiding judgment and an eternal hell.

This however is inconsistent with basic Christian (not just Catholic) teaching that we are only born once on earth and hence we die only once, and after death comes the judgment. It therefore contradicts the teaching on the Resurrection.

One passage will suffice: read and reflect upon Hebrews 9:27

Gerry

 

[thechrismyster]

William Hurt in ‘Altered States’ stated “The ultimate truth is that there is no Ultimate Truth.” - that is not a logical statement.
Truth implies a self contained absolute. If you don’t like religious concepts, the field of Mathematics is filled with truths. thereby proving truths exist.

 

[Apologia100]

thechrismyster:

William Hurt in ‘Altered States’ stated “The ultimate truth is that there is no Ultimate Truth.” - that is not a logical statement.
Truth implies a self contained absolute. If you don’t like religious concepts, the field of Mathematics is filled with truths. thereby proving truths exist.

Actually, it is not only illogivcal, it is self-contradictory. The absolute truth is there is not absolute truth, contradicts itself, so it is therefore wrong, meaning that there is absolute truth, its like a double negative.

 

[buffalo]

From the CCC:

1013 Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed,586 we shall not return to other earthly lives: "It is appointed for men to die once."587 There is no “reincarnation” after death.

 

[AmandaPS]

RobedWithLight:

Reincarnation simply says that after death, we come back by being born in a new body, which is basically some form of cosmic recycling.

Depends on which reincarnation belief you are referring to. Theravadan Buddhists believe that you don’t always come back as a human.

This doctrine is very attractive and soothing to many people because it satisfies and ensures the basic human longing for immortality while avoiding judgment and an eternal hell.

Theravadan Buddhists believe that there is a plane of reincarnation called hell. Once you get there, it’s pretty darn hard to get out. Judgement comes in the form of kamma.

This however is inconsistent with basic Christian (not just Catholic) teaching that we are only born once on earth and hence we die only once, and after death comes the judgment. It therefore contradicts the teaching on the Resurrection.

Absolutely right.

 

[Riley259]

Donna:

Hi,

A Catholic co-worker has a good heart but her head is in the wrong place. I don’t have all of the answers because I’m learning them myself.

Her latest question is about reincarnation. She thinks we could be reincarnated. Please educate me on the Churches teachings and any references in the bible.

God Bless,
Donna

The Catholic church has always taught that we die once - this is based on both Tradition and scripture (ex., Hebrews 9:27). However, you may want to also appeal to their reason. Eastern religions/practices that believe in reincarnation such as Hinduism and Buddhism have a pantheistic and strictly immanent view of god. They also believe that the universe has existed forever and there’s no talk of a beginning or contingent existence back to the beginning. If you point out that modern science (cosmology) strongly points to a beginning point in time (i.e., The Big Bang), then you can connect that to the idea of a transcendent God (existing outside of time and His creation) that necessarily is implied - this idea strongly contradicts the forever existing universe and exclusively immanent god idea that is so closely linked to reincarnation.

 

[Philthy]

Feeling the need to “refute” reincarnation is the problem. I’m not sure it’s possible to refute it in an absolute(philosophical) sense. There are lots of false ideas which can not necessarily be proven false in an absolute sense. But generally the burden of proof for an unproven assumption falls on the person making the assumption. In this case it is your friend who is making the unproven assertion (that we are reincarnated) that has the burden of proof. Your end is simple - say this to your friend "There is no proof of human reincarnation - people die and we have no reason to believe that they return. Also, **the inherent fear of death in all intelligent life points to the fact that they don’t expect to be returning after death. **So the burden of proof falls to you my friend, what is your great proof for reincarnation?"Your friend won’t have a lot of convincing info - maybe a couple of people who claim to have experienced things in a previous life. That’s very far from a PROOF of reincarnation - all that would prove is that they have information from another lifetime - there is no indication that it was there own. When all attempts at logic fail - which they eventually will - state your offer to them to take their own life if they are so confident that they will be returning in another and throw in that actions speak louder than words and their silence speaks volumes. I think that might work- for a little while anyway! And remember: when the attack comes back at your belief in Christ that you have the Resurrection; witnessed by hundreds, predicted by Christ himself and the prophets, and unprecedented in the history of the human race.

 

[hermit]

There are millions of Hindus who believe in reincarnation. Are they wrong? Just because our beliefs differ from theirs, does that make us right?

The arrogance of beliefs never ceases to amaze me.

 

[RobedWithLight]

thechrismyster:

William Hurt in ‘Altered States’ stated “The ultimate truth is that there is no Ultimate Truth.” - that is not a logical statement.
Truth implies a self contained absolute. If you don’t like religious concepts, the field of Mathematics is filled with truths. thereby proving truths exist.

The ultimate truth, is that there is none, is a self-refuting statement. If you ask him if that statement is absolutely true, he will likewise say yes it is !

Gerry

 

[RobedWithLight]

hermit:

There are millions of Hindus who believe in reincarnation. Are they wrong? Just because our beliefs differ from theirs, does that make us right?

The arrogance of beliefs never ceases to amaze me.

Indeed. But the person who started this thread was asking a question on how to refute Reincarnation, and we assume he wants to do this from a Christian perspective, and when viewing at it from a Christian perspective, which this forum is, we believe it isn’t right, which is why we offer reasons why we say so from Scripture, Tradition and from philosophic considerations. The plain and simple fact is, reincarnation simply doesn’t fit in Christianity, and forcing it in would be like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Gerry

 

[aridite]

hermit:

There are millions of Hindus who believe in reincarnation. Are they wrong? Just because our beliefs differ from theirs, does that make us right?

The arrogance of beliefs never ceases to amaze me.

The fact that there are millions of Hindus and millions of Christians has nothing to do with whether we or they are right. Us being right (if we are) would not be what makes them wrong; and our difference from them is not what would make us right (if we are). But, we can’t both be right. If all men are judged once and go onto an eternal destiny, then not even some of us can be reborn as another human or dog or bug or something. It is possible nothing happens after death, in which both Hindus and Christians would be wrong.

I don’t think this happens; I think I have good reasons for believing that reincarnation is false, both from faith and reason. And, of course I think I’m right. But that is just what it means to have a belief. If I believe x, then I think x is true, and not-x is false. If I didn’t think x were true, I might opine x, or have a sneeking feeling that x. But to believe x, is to think x is true, and I am right to believe x. I think it would be arrogant to suppose that falsity of reincarnation was obvious, and that therefore Hindus are stupid. I don’t think either is true, and I don’t think anyone suggested that either were.

I believe my soul is what makes my body to be alive, and to have the characteristics it does (is male, can speak, for example), as well as what allows me to have human thoughts and wishes. Thought and wishes are what I think really characterize me as me. So if I were to be reincarnated, I would have to have a human body for my soul to enliven it and to sustain human thoughts, etc. I don’t think it is possible for a dog’s body to have done to it what my human body has done to it in being elivened by my soul. I don’t think a dog’s brain would be able to sustain the mental activities necessary to have human thoughts (even though such thoughts are not technically in the brain).

Do humans who are reincarnated as dogs sit around pondering reincarnation? If not, in what sense is it the same soul that was reincarnated? If so, what is the evidence? It certainly doesn’t look like they ponder such things.

 

[RobedWithLight]

AmandaPS:

Depends on which reincarnation belief you are referring to. Theravadan Buddhists believe that you don’t always come back as a human.

Theravadan Buddhists believe that there is a plane of reincarnation called hell. Once you get there, it’s pretty darn hard to get out. Judgement comes in the form of kamma.

Hello Amanda

I was referring to the common, popular variant of reincarnation nowadays, usually associated with the so-called “New Age” movement, not the Theravada Buddhist teaching.

Incidentally, you mentioned that in Theravadan belief you don’t always come back as human. Therefore, is it possible that you would come back as an animal ?

Gerry

 

[Apologia100]

hermit:

There are millions of Hindus who believe in reincarnation. Are they wrong? Just because our beliefs differ from theirs, does that make us right?

The arrogance of beliefs never ceases to amaze me.

That may be because we as Catholics believe in an absolute Truth and Moral standard. Truth does not vary from one cultural context to the next, although our perception of that truth may be different. God did not create one set of rules for us as Christians, another set for Jews, another for Muslims, and yet another for Hindus (not to mention Buddist, Siehks, American Indians, Pagans, atheists, and so on and so forth). God gave us a single moral standard, and we either comply or don’t, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life,” and “If you are not with me, you are against me.”

 

[AmandaPS]

RobedWithLight:

Hello Amanda

I was referring to the common, popular variant of reincarnation nowadays, usually associated with the so-called “New Age” movement, not the Theravada Buddhist teaching.

That’s why I said depends on which one you are referring to. Uncharitable as it may seem, I can’t stand New Age beliefs. They seem very flakey to me, and the Westernization of Mahayana Buddhism looks New Agey.

Incidentally, you mentioned that in Theravadan belief you don’t always come back as human. Therefore, is it possible that you would come back as an animal ?

Gerry

Yes, it’s possible that you come back as an animal. That’s why some are strict vegitarians, and refuse to even kill an insect. I don’t hold onto the non meat eatting, non bug killing view. And there is also a hell, which is pretty hard to get out of. You can also come back as a ghost.