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aliciar
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Does the Roman Catholic church believe in reincarnation? I only believe when you die, if you are good you first have to go to Purgatory, then heaven. If not, you go hell. But no one is born again, right?
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Doxiemom
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no one gets to be re-born
it is appointed unto man to die once and then there is the judgement
You can call the judgement purgatory or you can call it the Judgement Seat of Christ, but it will be what it will be.
Born again means a renewal of your spirit after acceptence of Jesus as the Christ
There is however the Second Death. After the Great White Throne judgement, Satan and the fallen angels and those from hell are formally sentenced to the lake of fire which is called the second death.
it is appointed unto man to die once and then there is the judgement
You can call the judgement purgatory or you can call it the Judgement Seat of Christ, but it will be what it will be.
Born again means a renewal of your spirit after acceptence of Jesus as the Christ
There is however the Second Death. After the Great White Throne judgement, Satan and the fallen angels and those from hell are formally sentenced to the lake of fire which is called the second death.
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LBSDBS
Guest
I am not 100% sure what the official Catholic position on this is, but according to Jesus, John the Baptist was Elijah.
There is a theory going around that John the Baptist was “A”, Elijah resurrected or “B” having come in the spirit of Elijah.
If we assume that he was Elijah resurrected, then we can pretty much toss out the whole new testament because the same set of records describes John the Baptists mother being pregnant with him.
If we speak of him coming in the spirit of Elijah, then we have 2 reasonable options. 1, that means he WAS reincarnated or 2, we have strong indication that even the best side of afterlife isn’t what it’s cranked up to be as this would indicate that your conscience dies with you when you die and your spirit is effectively a whole new life.
I prefer to take the scientific approach and follow the host universe (atoms controlled by non-physical forces) theory, in which case just about any combination of the above is possible. I guess what it all boils down to is that if God wants to send someone back in to this world, he can and very few Christians will argue against us having souls before we’re born.
There is a theory going around that John the Baptist was “A”, Elijah resurrected or “B” having come in the spirit of Elijah.
If we assume that he was Elijah resurrected, then we can pretty much toss out the whole new testament because the same set of records describes John the Baptists mother being pregnant with him.
If we speak of him coming in the spirit of Elijah, then we have 2 reasonable options. 1, that means he WAS reincarnated or 2, we have strong indication that even the best side of afterlife isn’t what it’s cranked up to be as this would indicate that your conscience dies with you when you die and your spirit is effectively a whole new life.
I prefer to take the scientific approach and follow the host universe (atoms controlled by non-physical forces) theory, in which case just about any combination of the above is possible. I guess what it all boils down to is that if God wants to send someone back in to this world, he can and very few Christians will argue against us having souls before we’re born.
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Pons
Guest
According to Luke 1:17 (NIV): " And he will go on before the Lord,* in the spirit and power of Elijah*, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
The Church Father Origen wrote:
“[Scripture says] ‘And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” and he said, “I am not”’ [John 1:21]. No one can fail to remember in this connection what Jesus says of John: ‘If you will receive it, this is Elijah, who is to come’ [Matt. 11:14]. How then does John come to say to those who ask him, ‘Are you Elijah?’—‘I am not’? . . . One might say that John did not know that he was Elijah. This will be the explanation of those who find in our passage a support for their doctrine of reincarnation, as if the soul clothed itself in a fresh body and did not quite remember its former lives. . . . [H]owever, a churchman, who repudiates the doctrine of reincarnation as a false one and does not admit that the soul of John was ever Elijah, may appeal to the above-quoted words of the angel, and point out that it is not the soul of Elijah that is spoken of at John’s birth, but the spirit and power of Elijah” (Commentary on John 6:7 [A.D. 229]).
“As for the spirits of the prophets, these are given to them by God and are spoken of as being in a manner their property [slaves], as ‘The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets’ [1 Cor. 14:32] and ‘The spirit of Elijah rested upon Elisha’ [2 Kgs. 2:15]. Thus, it is said, there is nothing absurd in supposing that John, ‘in the spirit and power of Elijah,’ turned the hearts of the fathers to the children and that it was on account of this spirit that he was called ‘Elijah who is to come’” (ibid.).
From catholic.com/library/Reincarnation.asp
The Church Father Origen wrote:
“[Scripture says] ‘And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” and he said, “I am not”’ [John 1:21]. No one can fail to remember in this connection what Jesus says of John: ‘If you will receive it, this is Elijah, who is to come’ [Matt. 11:14]. How then does John come to say to those who ask him, ‘Are you Elijah?’—‘I am not’? . . . One might say that John did not know that he was Elijah. This will be the explanation of those who find in our passage a support for their doctrine of reincarnation, as if the soul clothed itself in a fresh body and did not quite remember its former lives. . . . [H]owever, a churchman, who repudiates the doctrine of reincarnation as a false one and does not admit that the soul of John was ever Elijah, may appeal to the above-quoted words of the angel, and point out that it is not the soul of Elijah that is spoken of at John’s birth, but the spirit and power of Elijah” (Commentary on John 6:7 [A.D. 229]).
“As for the spirits of the prophets, these are given to them by God and are spoken of as being in a manner their property [slaves], as ‘The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets’ [1 Cor. 14:32] and ‘The spirit of Elijah rested upon Elisha’ [2 Kgs. 2:15]. Thus, it is said, there is nothing absurd in supposing that John, ‘in the spirit and power of Elijah,’ turned the hearts of the fathers to the children and that it was on account of this spirit that he was called ‘Elijah who is to come’” (ibid.).
From catholic.com/library/Reincarnation.asp
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alaindelong
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Reincarnation is the amelioration of the soul. Repeated incarnations are supposed to perfect the soul.This hypothesis has always troubled me more today than ever before. Just look at the troubled world we live in. This culture of death has systematically removed Jesus not only from His Birthday, but also from every facet of life. There is a moral decay today in this culture. It is not just the economy but life in general.
How about this for starters, illegal immigrants come into this country, hijack commercial airlines and kill 3000 people in this eveil act in which they act in behalf of Satan.
If reincarnation were a valid hypothesis the very antithesis of this moral and physical decaying planet would be occuring. Reincarnation is the perfection of the soul. Are the fruits of this fallacy really happening today? Just watch the 6 o’clock news.
How about this for starters, illegal immigrants come into this country, hijack commercial airlines and kill 3000 people in this eveil act in which they act in behalf of Satan.
If reincarnation were a valid hypothesis the very antithesis of this moral and physical decaying planet would be occuring. Reincarnation is the perfection of the soul. Are the fruits of this fallacy really happening today? Just watch the 6 o’clock news.
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evidence
Guest
any reading of the old testament alone whould show that the jews only believed in one lifetime. The “spirit of Elijah” means more the power or charism (living in the desert with camel hair from clothes, etc.) of Elijah than actually elijah. The new testamnent proof is hebrews 9:27 - "it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment. "
another proof that John the baptist was not elijah was that Elijah appeared to Jesus at the transfiguration, not John the baptist.
this is in the catechism as well - Paragraph # 1013
men shall not return to other earthly lives: “It is appointed for men to die once.” There is no “reincarnation” after death
URL: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1013.htm
you can believe in reincarnation, but if you do, you are no longer an orthodox catholic, but a dissenting Catholic.
another proof that John the baptist was not elijah was that Elijah appeared to Jesus at the transfiguration, not John the baptist.
this is in the catechism as well - Paragraph # 1013
men shall not return to other earthly lives: “It is appointed for men to die once.” There is no “reincarnation” after death
URL: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1013.htm
you can believe in reincarnation, but if you do, you are no longer an orthodox catholic, but a dissenting Catholic.
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Lisa44
Guest
This is true. And you will find that those people with the most invested in this belief are the ones who are the least interested in the world today.Reincarnation is the amelioration of the soul. Repeated incarnations are supposed to perfect the soul.This hypothesis has always troubled me more today than ever before. Just look at the troubled world we live in. This culture of death has systematically removed Jesus not only from His Birthday, but also from every facet of life. There is a moral decay today in this culture. It is not just the economy but life in general.
How about this for starters, illegal immigrants come into this country, hijack commercial airlines and kill 3000 people in this eveil act in which they act in behalf of Satan.
If reincarnation were a valid hypothesis the very antithesis of this moral and physical decaying planet would be occuring. Reincarnation is the perfection of the soul. Are the fruits of this fallacy really happening today? Just watch the 6 o’clock news.
Reincarnation allows them to be morally indifferent to the world. People are suffering because of their bad karma. So the belief in R actually makes the world a worse place. Because those who believe in R are also indifferent to evil.
Instead, they expend their energy meditating to get enlightened so they can escape the evil world when they get enlightened.
Kindof like a person would do drugs to escape reality.
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