Relationship between prayer and sex?

[joshrp]

Hi,

I have kind of a strange question. It’s actually a lot of questions, but it rose up in my mind while I was praying the Rosary and the 24 glory be chaplet to St. Therese.

What is the relationship between prayer and sex? I’m going to try to keep this question simple, because I am thinking of some pretty wacky theological ideas, and I can go overboard sometimes. What is God doing while a married couple is having sexual intercourse? He is obviously very deeply involved in the act of love between a truly chaste and pure husband and wife seeking to participate in the creation of new life. Can a couple pray during sex? And I don’t mean some bizarre tantric stuff. Could a married couple say meditate on the Song of Songs while they are consummating their matrimonial vows for the purpose of creating new life.

I’m not even married, but I have struggled with pornography and just thinking of sex in this way has made it easier for me to combat temptation because when I think of sex in this way, I just get no pleasure out of making any acts that pale in comparison to this conception (no pun intended). Pornography becomes totally dull and boring. Contraception is lame. Chastity becomes a fun anticipation of true joy.

Also, how do you know if you are called to marry and raise a family? I just have the feeling that I am being called to marry someone, although I don’t even know if I have even met who yet. I just have a great desire to help God to create new lives and educate and nurture and care for and love them so that they can bring God’s love to so many more people throughout the world, and bring Christ to all families and homes. That is the only reason I would want to marry a woman and raise children with her. All I care about is Christ. Everything I do is for Christ, of Christ, to Christ. Only in Christ will one find joy. There is no other joy but that of Christ. I think the main reason that Jesus remained a virgin and never married a woman or had children, was to show that virginity sanctifies sex. To be a little bit vulgar I guess, it is probably true that the longer you hold off on sex, the more satisfying it is when you actually do engage in it. And the more committed and totally faithful and passionate you are about the person you are making love to and the more passionate you are about conceiving and raising children together to their fullest potential, the more satisfying the intercourse is. I can’t imagine sex being satisfying if I don’t want children. I certainly know that masturbation isn’t satisfying, having done plenty of that. My whole motto regarding sex is “If I ain’t ready for kids, I ain’t ready for sex.” People talk about safe sex, but they never talk about responsible sex. Oh wait, Cardinal Wjotyla wrote a whole book about it. He became Pope later didn’t he???

I could never enjoy having sex if I would not enjoy raising children.

I kind of went on a lot of digressions. But I am wondering if anyone actually prays during sex??? I don’t know if that is an appropriate question to ask. I figure if people can share mucous chart calenders while practicing NFP they can share prayer during sex right? I feel kind of silly asking this. It’s just that my favorite thing to do with someone is to pray with them. God’s love is far more enjoyable to experience than any bodily pleasure one can achieve with another human being.

I would just like to mention something. I don’t know if any of this is appropriate. I kind of feel like I’m being dirty talking about this, but that is not my intention at all. Ecstatic prayer. When I think of ecstatic prayer I think of St. Teresa of Avila. It seems the name Teresa has an excellent track record for saints by the way. But you might know about the statue of St. Teresa in ecstasy. Maybe it is just me, but her expression looks almost erotic. I don’t want to be too inappropriate but I just think this would be helpful for people who have struggled with pornography addiction and lust like myself, and that is the only reason I bring this up. St. Teresa of Avila never had sex with anyone. She was a virgin her whole life. People often say that they could never live without sex. They just need that pleasure. They need to have orgasms to be fulfilled. St. Teresa of Avila probably never had a single orgasm in her life. Yet during prayer and now in Heaven she probably experiences more pleasure being chaste and celibate than any of us have ever received having an orgasm while watching pornography, masturbating, having sexual intercourse, etc. Her pleasure is probably superior to anything anyone has ever felt while having the best sex possible, but she never engaged in any unchaste activity. I’ve often struggled with giving up pleasure whenever I feel the urge for it or the temptation to it. But if you understand that their is more pleasure in Heaven for one who gives up earthly pleasure for the sake of the kingdom and the salvation of souls to slake Christ’s thirst for love, then it will be much easier to remain chaste. I was afraid to post a picture of the statue I am referring to for fear that people would have inappropriate thoughts about it. Well, maybe I can just post this now, and see what you all think of this. I’m nervous about saying something scandalous and against church teaching, and I hope someone will correct me or the moderators will either edit or delete this post if it is improper in any way.

This is the statue I am referring to. Any married couple who has had children can probably appreciate it more than I can. google.com/search?q=teresa+of+avila+statue&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=572&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=tg7DTue-J7PJ0AGK1bilDw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDUQ_AUoAQ

Am I going to far in hypothesizing the conncetion between sexual ecstasy and ecstatic prayer? Is ther a connection? Or am I being completely erroneous?

Joshua

 

[silicasandra]

IMO, sex between a married couple should be a kind of prayer and many theologians, including Bl. John Paul II, have written about the spiritual aspect of human sexuality. Dr. Greg Popcak’s Holy Sex is an excellent beginning to understanding this.

Many saints have had “ecstatic” experiences and they aren’t described this way for nothing. I think you are on to something, here.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Joshua, I think that your wife, if you are called to marry, is going to be a very lucky and a very happy woman.



God bless you.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

To be perfectly honest, the only times I can really recall praying during sex was when we were trying to conceive, and then several times when we were worried about our current pregnancy, although at that point I was praying almost constantly. I’ve prayed before and after quite often, though.

As far as knowing whether I was called to marriage or not, when I was 12-13 years old I fully believed that the only way I could get to Heaven was if I became a priest. I knew I was drawn to the idea of being married and having a large family, but I believed that I had to enter the priesthood. I spent months praying about it, and quite frequently, after an intense period of prayer, something would happen to point me back to the notion of marriage and family (I’d have a dream that I was married, I’d run into someone with a lot of kids who would tell me how wonderful it was, etc.). I finally had no choice but to recognize that the priesthood was absolutely not my vocation. We don’t have quite a large a family as I would have liked (we’re expecting our fifth), but I’m overjoyed and thankful for taking the path I did.

 

[twoangels]

Hi,

I have kind of a strange question. It’s actually a lot of questions, but it rose up in my mind while I was praying the Rosary and the 24 glory be chaplet to St. Therese.

What is the relationship between prayer and sex? I’m going to try to keep this question simple, because I am thinking of some pretty wacky theological ideas, and I can go overboard sometimes. What is God doing while a married couple is having sexual intercourse? He is obviously very deeply involved in the act of love between a truly chaste and pure husband and wife seeking to participate in the creation of new life.

When I think of seeking to procreate, I think of a couple obsessively use their fertile days exclusively and getting anxious about it, coveting a child. I think coveting a child can be sinful. we passively open ourselves up to the possibility every time we have sex, whether its the fertile phase or not. Its a part of the expression of volunerability. Its an act of complete self donation and trust. You’re not just giving yourself to your spouse, but you’re giving yourself to God. But ultimately its God’s will be done, not yours.

Can a couple pray during sex? And I don’t mean some bizarre tantric stuff. Could a married couple say meditate on the Song of Songs while they are consummating their matrimonial vows for the purpose of creating new life.

I’d recommend praying the psalms and meditating on them maybe before. My husband has parts of Song of Solomon memorized and its nice at moments, but sex is sort of like giving birth. I also had written out some psalms for me to pray while I was in labor, but they helped the most at earlier points of the labor. Eventually I had to just be in the moment of labor and surrender to the process. It wasn’t even just about the pain of labor but the surrendering to it and its a very similiar surrender to the surrender of sex. I know, because it took us two months to figure out how to consumate our marriage and a lot of what I learned to be able to consumate our marriage helped me surrender to the labor process. You could say in some ways its like prayer. Contemplative prayer can lead you to moments where vocal prayer is distracting. You just sit and silence: you look at God and God looks at you and that moment is just prayer. So I guess its similiar to that form of prayer.

Also, how do you know if you are called to marry and raise a family?

In my prayer life I always felt like God was calling me to stop focusing so far ahead. I felt He constantly wanted me to try to make the most of my present Day to be an offering to Him. I’d ask Him about marriage and I always felt like I’d get this silence that didn’t say no, but rather said “Don’t ask. Trust. Focus on me.”

I don’t think its good to know for certain. Just pray for daily guidence.

I think the main reason that Jesus remained a virgin and never married a woman or had children, was to show that virginity sanctifies sex.

Jesus is God. If He married, He would have formed a special covenant with one human being and his children would have been his family. There would have been a divide between the rest of us and His descendants. Instead, Christ formed a covenant with all of humanity. That is why the Church is called the Bride of Christ.

To be a little bit vulgar I guess, it is probably true that the longer you hold off on sex, the more satisfying it is when you actually do engage in it.

I would say there is something special about having been with only one person and completely giving yourself utterly to them, but I don’t think its more satisfying because I got married at 29 rather than 21.

Am I going to far in hypothesizing the conncetion between sexual ecstasy and ecstatic prayer? Is ther a connection? Or am I being completely erroneous?

Joshua

I would say that the physical pleasure of sex is not prayerful, but I have experienced moments of intimacy/unity with my husband that are similiar to experiences I’ve experienced with God while at Eucharistic adoration. Moreover the intimacy far exceeds the value of the physical pleasure and is far more rewarding. But it doesn’t begin that way when you first get married.

 

[1to3to4to]

I also would like help with the latter part of this question. I would like to warn in advance that the question itself is somewhat explicit, but my intention is not to be inappropriate in any way, this is a real issue that I need help with.

Someone close to me, not a spouse or partner or anything, but someone who respects my opinion, has claimed to have moments of extreme ecstasy during prayer, even to the point of actual orgasm. Is there precedence for this and is it from God or somewhere else? I know certain mystics have spoken about ecstasy during prayer, is this what they mean?? I am at a loss as to what opinion to give on the matter, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Marie1234]

Joshua, I think that your wife, if you are called to marry, is going to be a very lucky and a very happy woman.



God bless you.

I agree, good for you!

Yes, of course you can pray during sex. It’s a sacrament, right? I hear that a chaste married couple gets graces through the marital act, prayer seems quite appropriate to me if you want to do that.

This is kinda awkward, not my religion teacher back in high school told me he and his wife would pray every time before they engaged in sex. So, I don’t see why you couldn’t pray during too? Anytime is a good time to thank God

 

[Marie1234]

I also would like help with the latter part of this question. I would like to warn in advance that the question itself is somewhat explicit, but my intention is not to be inappropriate in any way, this is a real issue that I need help with.

Someone close to me, not a spouse or partner or anything, but someone who respects my opinion, has claimed to have moments of extreme ecstasy during prayer, even to the point of actual orgasm. Is there precedence for this and is it from God or somewhere else? I know certain mystics have spoken about ecstasy during prayer, is this what they mean?? I am at a loss as to what opinion to give on the matter, any help would be greatly appreciated.

I wondered that too, like Saint Terese of Avila’s ecstasy? What exactly does that mean?

 

[LittleRose]

… when I think of sex in this way, I just get no pleasure out of making any acts that pale in comparison to this conception (no pun intended). Pornography becomes totally dull and boring. Contraception is lame. Chastity becomes a fun anticipation of true joy.

Excellent.

I could never enjoy having sex if I would not enjoy raising children.

This remark makes me concerned. Does this mean you couldn’t enjoy making love to your wife if you or she turn out to be infertile?

I kind of went on a lot of digressions. But I am wondering if anyone actually prays during sex???

One of the couples that led our engaged encounter would affectionately refer to the marital embrace as “horizontal prayer”. So I think the answer to that question is yes.

Am I going to far in hypothesizing the conncetion between sexual ecstasy and ecstatic prayer? Is ther a connection? Or am I being completely erroneous?

I believe I heard somewhere that the ecstasy one experiences with one’s spouse is supposed to be a foretaste of heaven. (Can’t remember where I heard that, or I would point you to a source.) Speaking as a married person, I think the connection makes sense.