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S_V7
Guest
What is it and is it a flawed? If so why?
Thanks and God bless
Thanks and God bless
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mschrank
Guest
Here is what you’re looking for:
peterkreeft.com/audio/05_relativism/relativism_transcription.htm
Peter Kreeft is the man.
peterkreeft.com/audio/05_relativism/relativism_transcription.htm
Peter Kreeft is the man.
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tm30
Guest
In a nutshell, relativism is the notion that you believe 2+2=4, and the guy down the street believes 2+2=5, and you’re both right.
i.e., Relativism denies that there is one Truth, but many truths based on subjectivity instead of objectivity.
i.e., Relativism=nonsense
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Hastrman
Guest
In as much as a Platonist can be the man, anyway.
Any form of utilitarianism–“what works?” ethics–or sentimentalism–“what feels good?” ethics–is also relativist, since they make good and evil relative to something other than the intrinsic nature of the acts/objects in question.
Now there is a relative element in proper ethics, the fact that motive and knowledge are taken into account in judging a particular act. But the act itself has an objective nature.
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Nino
Guest
well ,like relatives,they seem to come over for dinner and eat all the good stuff…only what is convenient etc…and so it is with this 'relativism’bit…'americas mayor used to pride himself on saying…" I am roman catholic (small C) and follow what teachings I feel I am comfortable with" and he did just that…thats why Pat Robertson endorsed him…that is protestant thinking…proclaimed by that good ole boy Martin Luther…wear your religion not on your sleeve but like comfortable shoes.on your feet…only the teachings you like…all else shove aside…but also…its trendy to walk out of church and be photograped holding a rather huge black book in ones hands…as “I feel ya pain” Clinton used to do…
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Newbie2
Guest
In realitivism, there are no absolutes; hence there is no such thing as an objective truth.
The danger with realitivism in theology is in worst in the notion of sin. Since there are no absolute truths, the one that makes the most sense to the person at the time substitutes for that “truth”.
For example, thou shalt not kill. But killing one person isn’t as bad as what Hitler did, killing millions. And killing an unborn child isn’t as bad as killing an adult.
Relativism can explain away most moral behavior and therein lies it’s flaw, theologically speaking.
The danger with realitivism in theology is in worst in the notion of sin. Since there are no absolute truths, the one that makes the most sense to the person at the time substitutes for that “truth”.
For example, thou shalt not kill. But killing one person isn’t as bad as what Hitler did, killing millions. And killing an unborn child isn’t as bad as killing an adult.
Relativism can explain away most moral behavior and therein lies it’s flaw, theologically speaking.
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ilovekittens
Guest
Then all war is absolutely wrong, since war involves intentional killing of other people. To support war is to be a moral relativist, no?
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joeybaggz
Guest
The objective of war is not killing people. Throughout history wars have been fought for both just and unjust reasons. Wars to be considered just are fought for the principles of freedom and self-defense. Both principles are recognized as absolute by ethicists. In modern times, for those two reasons, the Church recognizes a “just war” policy. The “just war” position is not considered moral relativism as self-defense and freedom from opression, subjugation, slavery, and harm are not morally relative concepts.
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steveandersen
Guest
well, that depends
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ilovekittens
Guest
I think this is just making excuses. If “thou shall not kill” is a moral absolute, as the other poster claims, then war with guns and bombs and tanks is wrong, since it necessarily involves killing people.
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buffalo
Guest
There is a distinction - Thou shall not murder is not the same as thou shall not kill. Legitimate defense is allowed and not murder.
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mschrank
Guest
He’s right. The decalogue actually says “murder” and not “kill”…
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vern_humphrey
Guest
The commandment is properly translated as “Thou shalt not murder.” Murder is the unlawful or unjust killing of a human being. Killing in self-defense is not murder, and war is collective self-defense.
Let me point out that the same God who gave Moses the Ten Commandments also commanded the Israelites to conquer the Promised Land, and even to exterminate some of the people living there.
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buffalo
Guest
because they were so evil.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Yup. But they were still humans. And God commanded the Israelites to exterminate them.
Could this indicate that He wants us to fight evil – even to the extent of going to war when necessary?
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SoCalRC
Guest
No, for Catholics the “proper” translation of the commandment is “You shall not kill” (See Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part Three Article Five).
In Catholic tradition there is no strong principle of “self defense”. In fact, in creating Just War tradition, St. Augustine argued that we are individually prohibited from resisting evil with violence. We can see this in the Catechism even today. For example, the foundation for any justification of self or societal defense is laid out in CCC 1909:
Notice that the Augustine principles are still evident, societal action, via proper authority, and an objection of peace.
The Church merely proposes that violent self defense might be legitimate in specific cases because of “double effect”:
The quote is from St. Thomas Aquinas, not an apostolic constitution or Holy Scripture. And, again, notice that there is no right to violent defense, merely an unintended side effect.
And let me point out that God appeared to Moses in a seemingly very clear form. Further, God’s chosen were sorely tested. Wars of choice and self interest should, perhaps, be a little more cautious in assuming a Divine mantle.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
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buffalo
Guest
The Hebrew language uses different words for intentional and unintentional killing.
The Hebrew punishment for murder or premeditated killing was death. So it was well recognized. Hebrew law also recognized unitentional killing as not punishable.
The King James Version translates it to - “Thou shall not murder.”
The English tranlation is - “Do not put anyone to death without cause.”
The Douay Rheims uses both words - murder and kill.
Here are a few verses:
Murder
Exodus 22
3 But if he did this when the sun is risen, he hath committed murder, and he shall die. If he have not wherewith to make restitution for the theft, he shall be sold.
2 Numbers 35
16 If any man strike with iron, and he die that was struck: he shall be guilty of murder, and he himself shall die.
3 Numbers 35
21 Or being his enemy, strike; him with his hand, and he die: the striker shall be guilty of murder: the kinsman of him that was slain as soon as he findeth him, shall kill him.
4 Deuteronomy 21
1 Then there shall be found in the land, which the Lord thy God will give thee, the corpse of a man slain, and it is not known who is guilty of the murder,
5 Judges 9
24 And to leave the crime of the murder of the seventy sons of Jerobaal, and the shedding of their blood upon Abimelech their brother, and upon the rest of the princes of the Sichemites, who aided him.
Kill
Genesis 4
14 Behold thou dost cast me out this day from the face of the earth, and I shall be hidden from thy face, and I shall be a vagabond and a fugitive on the earth: every one, therefore, that findeth me, shall kill me.
2 Genesis 4
15 And the Lord said to him: No, it shall not be so: but whosoever shall kill Cain, shall be punished sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, that whosoever found him should not kill him.
3 Genesis 12
12 And that when the Egyptians shall see thee, they will say: She is his wife: and they will kill me, and keep thee.
4 Genesis 20
11 Abraham answered: I thought with myself, saying: Perhaps there is not the fear of God in this place: and they will kill me for the sake of my wife:
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ilovekittens
Guest
I think you’re being a moral relativist here. Either intentionally killing someone with a gun is always wrong, and absolutism holds, or it’s not, which would be a “relativist” viewpoint of morality.
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SoCalRC
Guest
Citation?
No, look at “Article 5 THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT”. But also check Catholic bibles approved from private study.
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