Religion an Elaborate Mechanism to Deal with Man's Fear of Death? DOUBTS at times?

[ComradeAndrei]

Does anyone here ever have doubts, frequent or only occasional, that in reality, death is merely a total end to our individual existance, and religion is Man’s way of dealing with this frightening reality? I admit that this thought occurs to me from time to time.

I study psychology at UNL (at least until I gradutate and get into Seminary), and we psychologists call that the Terror Managment Theory. Basically it states that religion (and basically all else we do) is the result of our trying to deal with death. We try to immortalize ourselves through our religions, our earthly conquests, inventions, dissertations, building projects etc.

Along with many other things in psychology, I think it is bunk. Just another attempt to ease the general acceptance of atheism.

Quite frankly, I don’t fear death. If we (the Catholic Church) are right, then one day we will all abe judged by our Lord Jesus Christ and will get what is coming to us, be it eternal life or eternal damnation.

If they (the atheists) are right, then who cares? When I die I will be nothing but a rotting corpse so no matter what I did it won’t matter and I won’t care because I won’t live on.

It is basically Pascal’s Wager-if the Church is right, then it is most certainly in our best interest to do what is right but if atheism is right, then nothing really matters.

I do truly believe in the Church and Her teachings and the reasons go far deeper than Pascal’s Wager. But if religion is really just a sham, no one will ever know. I will go on with my faith until my death in hope and pray for the grace of final perseverance.

 

[tossolul]

clarkal:

Are you joking*?* What about Catholic philosophers and theologians? Ever hear of Augustine or Thomas Aquinas? John Paul II? Jesuits? Pope Benedict XVI?

Please don’t compare these people’s accompleshments to the doubt raising- quarrel building- faith destroying questions I was referring to.

Theologians are different than looking for scientific explanations, and over analyzing and questioning God’s existence. This is what I am referring to. Maybe I wasnt’ clear in my statement.

 

[tossolul]

ComradeAndrei:

I study psychology at UNL (at least until I gradutate and get into Seminary), and we psychologists call that the Terror Managment Theory. Basically it states that religion (and basically all else we do) is the result of our trying to deal with death. We try to immortalize ourselves through our religions, our earthly conquests, inventions, dissertations, building projects etc.

Along with many other things in psychology, I think it is bunk. Just another attempt to ease the general acceptance of atheism.

Quite frankly, I don’t fear death. If we (the Catholic Church) are right, then one day we will all abe judged by our Lord Jesus Christ and will get what is coming to us, be it eternal life or eternal damnation.

If they (the atheists) are right, then who cares? When I die I will be nothing but a rotting corpse so no matter what I did it won’t matter and I won’t care because I won’t live on.

It is basically Pascal’s Wager-if the Church is right, then it is most certainly in our best interest to do what is right but if atheism is right, then nothing really matters.

I do truly believe in the Church and Her teachings and the reasons go far deeper than Pascal’s Wager. But if religion is really just a sham, no one will ever know. I will go on with my faith until my death in hope and pray for the grace of final perseverance.

Thank you for posting this. However, I have found out recently trying to use Pascal’s Wager with an atheist will only infuriate them. Go figure…

I totally agree with you though. Death is nothing to fear, if you are living in line with God’s will for you. It is instead something a person anticipates, as a runner anticipates the finish line of a long, hard, well trained for race…knowing that they have fullfilled their duties here, and can then reap the rewards of what they have sown.

I see our physical death as the time we reap our rewards for keeping our faith, and following God’s will for us. Our time here is a gift, and we are to use it wisely. Religion to me doesn’t have to do with being scared of dying… instead it has everything to do with Honoring God, and using the tools He has given us to stay in line with His will for our lives. That is what religion is here for (IMO).

 

[Magicsilence]

Guys, i have to say, though pascals wager is nice and all. To exhibit the idea that if we are right - great, and if not it wont matter shows (to me) a severe lacking of faith. I cannot say that i have not battled with these demons, but i just remember the times God has poured graces upon me and showed me his divine Mercy and remember how confident i was in God and his being. No doubt even floated near my mind. And when i do so, it clears my mind, and the devils leave me.

Let us all pray to have the faith of the saints. Would you take the step that indiana jones took in trying to reach the Holy Grail, or would your doubt? I pray that i could have such faith, and sometimes, God gives it to me.

Lord Almighty, how great you are.

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[tossolul]

Magicsilence:

Guys, i have to say, though pascals wager is nice and all. To exhibit the idea that if we are right - great, and if not it wont matter shows (to me) a severe lacking of faith. I cannot say that i have not battled with these demons, but i just remember the times God has poured graces upon me and showed me his divine Mercy and remember how confident i was in God and his being. No doubt even floated near my mind. And when i do so, it clears my mind, and the devils leave me.

Let us all pray to have the faith of the saints. Would you take the step that indiana jones took in trying to reach the Holy Grail, or would your doubt? I pray that i could have such faith, and sometimes, God gives it to me.

Lord Almighty, how great you are.

In Christ.

Andre.

I agree…Pascal’s Wager is appropriate to try to make a point with an Atheist. Most Christians would not need an arguement like this one. I believe it’s intent was for proof with non believers.

 

[Blackbog]

Pascal’s Wager exposed, see:

infidels.org/news/atheism/arguments.html#pascal

 

[clarkal]

tossolul:

Please don’t compare these people’s accompleshments to the doubt raising- quarrel building- faith destroying questions I was referring to.

Theologians are different than looking for scientific explanations, and over analyzing and questioning God’s existence. This is what I am referring to. Maybe I wasnt’ clear in my statement.

Philosophers and theologians deal with these “faith destroying” questions every day. That’s what the people I mentioned *did, as a lot of their “accomplishments” were just that. *They weren’t afraid to think for themselves, to analyze, to search out every possibility, even, God forbid, scientific possibilities.

Spiritblows is thinking for himself and hardly overanalyzing. He wants to know the truth, and you suggest the following:

“May I once again suggest that intellectualizing, and philosophying is not a way in which you will find God. If you truly are a Catholic like you say you are…I suggest you try to stear clear of these thoughts…They will never help in your search for God’s will for your life.”

(I can’t seem to stop typing in italics, I apologize)

Not only would tons of Catholics disagree with this, but it could be harmful. If I were still Catholic, the last thing that I would tell someone who was doubting the faith would be “don’t think about it. Just have faith!” If anything, this could be even more damaging to his faith.

I have known plenty of Christians that have had doubts and questions about their faith and have come out as people with even stronger faith as a result of being forced to intellectualize, so I don’t really understand your fear.

*And, please, stop stalking Spiritblows from thread to thread. You’re not doing your cause any good. *

 

[clarkal]

Thank you for posting this. However, I have found out recently trying to use Pascal’s Wager with an atheist will only infuriate them. Go figure…

The only reasons why – IF – an atheist will become angry if you bring up the Wager is that it is a horribly flawed and overused argument.

It does not make me angry, though. I only feel pity for proponents of it.

 

[barsapp]

clarkal:

The only reasons why – IF – an atheist will become angry if you bring up the Wager is that it is a horribly flawed and overused argument.
It does not make me angry, though. I only feel pity for proponents of it.

Remember “Did God Have Control over the Effects of Original Sin?”

Buddha’s atheism is kind of respectable. He realized the vanity of life. He fought against the passions of the flesh. He lived a life of sacrifice and renunciation. He understood how miserable human condition is and tried honestly to reach enlightenment…That’s ok. He was an Atheist and he did not intend to establish any religion. What happened after his death is another story. We can say that he was an Atheist “in search of truth”.

This is quite different from the Atheism of simple denial. Pascal was a great apologist and his arguments are still valid to anybody… who wants to listen to. The others…”neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.” Luke 16, 30-31.

 

[Topher]

cynic:

or we could be externalising our self love, by not loving ourselves directly, instead loving an all powerful ‘other’. That’s what an atheist would say.

What? I am sorry but that is nonsensical psycho babble. like I said, my prefence would be for Catholicism to NOT be true. That would be what I really want. But I can’t avoid it reality. Look buddy, becareful about dabbling in the area of psychology. I got a minor in psychology in college, and the more I studied, the more I realized what nonsense it really was.

 

[Topher]

clarkal:

The only reasons why – IF – an atheist will become angry if you bring up the Wager is that it is a horribly flawed and overused argument.

It does not make me angry, though. I only feel pity for proponents of it.

Yeah, cause there are much better proofs for the existence of God.

 

[clarkal]

barsapp:

Remember “Did God Have Control over the Effects of Original Sin?”

Buddha’s atheism is kind of respectable. He realized the vanity of life. He fought against the passions of the flesh. He lived a life of sacrifice and renunciation. He understood how miserable human condition is and tried honestly to reach enlightenment…That’s ok. He was an Atheist and he did not intend to establish any religion. What happened after his death is another story. We can say that he was an Atheist “in search of truth”.

This is quite different from the Atheism of simple denial. Pascal was a great apologist and his arguments are still valid to anybody… who wants to listen to. The others…”neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.” Luke 16, 30-31.

I became angry with you because I thought you said I was an idiot, not realizing those were Pascal’s words.

Do you think Pascal’s Wager is still valid? Why?

For the record, I am not a strong atheist, but a weak one. I do not know if there is a God (or gods), and I do not positively deny God’s existence, but I *lack *abelief in god.

 

[snowman10]

clarkal:

I became angry with you because I thought you said I was an idiot, not realizing those were Pascal’s words.

Do you think Pascal’s Wager is still valid? Why?

For the record, I am not a strong atheist, but a weak one. I do not know if there is a God (or gods), and I do not positively deny God’s existence, but I *lack *abelief in god.

I think that makes you agnostic, not atheist.

peace,
dxu

 

[clarkal]

Atheism can mean the denial of a god or gods or a lack of belief in a god or gods. The latter is the most popular definition in atheist circles, but not the one you will usually find in dictionaries. But there is a distinction: strong and weak. I think you should Google it.

Or you could just call me an agnostic atheist. (Yes, it’s a real term.)

 

[barsapp]

“fear of death”… don’t we die each day? It is not philosophy a preparation for death? Man without Christ, it is not like a “living dead”? Jn. 3,16: “…whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life”. Mk. 8,35: “For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake and the Gospel’s will save it". 1 Cor. 15,55: “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” We know that Christ does not lie. And we believe him. So, my fear is not strictly death, but tepidness. Rev. 3, 15-16: ”I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.”

This kind of bourgeois numbness. These daily routines that give us this sense of false security. Our fake earthly redemption. One and a half billion unborn legally killed. Figures beyond understanding. Where is death? Outside? Inside? Inside the mother’s womb? Thes 2,7: Mysterium iniquitatis. While we comfort each other with empty words the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained, still call out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” (Revelation 6, 9-11). Shorten these dismal days, Jesus! And forgive us…

 

[Tibbar]

spiritblows:

Hi Friends,
Does anyone here ever have doubts, frequent or only occasional, that in reality, death is merely a total end to our individual existance, and religion is Man’s way of dealing with this frightening reality? I admit that this thought occurs to me from time to time.

From primitive man, the reality of death, and it’s seeming permenance, has always been a looming reality. Maybe, in our attempt to deal with the harsh fact, that when we diewe will cease to exist, Man invented religion as a source of psychological comfort as we face the unknown oblivian.

I’m not saying this is true, but it’s a possiblity. From the obtainable data the world presents to us through our senses, and what can be measured through science, we have no hard evidence to the contrary.

Let’s put it this way. Do you remember what it was like before you were born? No. Why? Because you hadn’t yet existed. After you were born, you did exist. Scientists tell us that organic life sprang forth in time and in space. It didn’t always exist either. Before there was life what was there? There were rocks, and elements, there was land and water. Did the rocks and elements and land and water always exist? No. They sprang forth over time as well.

Now there is a planet flowing to the brim with abundant life of all different types. There are rocks, elements, land and water, too. Will all of this eventually come to an end? Yes. In time, what is now will no longer be in its present form. Will life go on and if so what kind of life will it be? These are existential questions humans have asked for ages. Different peoples have devised different answers to these perplexing questions. Still, the questions have been, and continue to be raised. Why? Because people have an awareness of the self as existing, and a universal hunger for purpose and meaning.

It seems to me that without the special intervention of God, people would continue to ask the questions and devise their own solutions to them. But as a Christian, in faith, I believe that God uniquely intervened in the history of humankind. I believe God beckoned Abram out of Ur and intitiated a covenant with humankind through him. This covenant was sealed through the blood of the Anointed One, the Son of God, Jesus, the Christ. By faith, I believe the testimony and witness of the first disciples. I am encouraged by their bold stand, and by the spread of the Christian faith throughout what were pagan lands.

Today, Christians can be found. They are increasingly few and far between, but if you look carefully, they are present…the salt of the Earth, light of the World. Their continued witness provides me with hope that, yes, there is a life beyond the here and now, beyond what we can see, hear, feel, taste and touch. This life is the life that existed before the world began. This life is the life that brought all things into being. And this life has the power to transform my life and establish it eternally.