Religion in England

[CWBetts]

Its called a “slippery slope” and it is something Americans are very concious of. On this side of the pond, we have never had an established religion, and are generally wary of things that foreshadow that kind of thing. I guess you would’t understan our mindset. The Muslims are free to practice their religion, but non-Muslims must also be free to NOT practice it. Does that make sense?

 

[LDNCatholic]

It was only a matter of time before people started warning us of the impending Muslim invasion

To all the people throwing a tantrum about Muslims living in Britain: They aren’t trying to take over, and life with Muslim neighbours is the same as life with any other people, they aren’t subverting us from within or whatever.

Paarsurrey, not many of the Muslims in this country are indiginous white converts, it is true Islam spread here peacefully but considering that most of the Muslim immigrants are either third world refugees or businessmen, it would not have been a good idea to invade by force

Religion in England is, as people who actually live in England have pointed out, a non issue for most people. There are still groups that practice, however it would seem that the longer a group has been here, the less it practices.

 

[Black_Dog]

I’m English, living in England and I dont recognise what is being described here. I know a lot of people who are turning towards the Catholic church. Mass is standing room only and there are lots of young people too From my perspective it is very vibrant.

Cant comment on Muslims as I dont know any but as far as I’m concerned they are more than welcome.

There are lots of Pagans but nowhere near the figure suggested on this thread. In my experience they tend to be white, middle aged, middle class women. I wouldnt care to hazard a guess as to why that is.

Hatred of Catholics is alive and well in SOME parts of the country but has more to do with recent Northern Irish politics than Tudor history.

Hope this helps

 

[Sarabande]

I’m English, living in England and I dont recognise what is being described here. I know a lot of people who are turning towards the Catholic church. Mass is standing room only and there are lots of young people too From my perspective it is very vibrant.

That’s wonderful. So my experience at the Brompton Oratory where it was standing room only really isn’t the exception to the rule, then?

Honestly, as I said in my other post, when I was studying over in England for a semester, I didn’t notice much of a difference between individual Catholics in the States and Catholics in England. Actually, in a way, mass was more meaninful and spiritually fulfilling over in England than it was here during that time in my life. It was an experienced that made me come back to the States a changed person in all aspects of my life - including in a spiritual sense. The liturgy, at least at the churches I attended, was more reverent and the music much more inspiring. And at that time (just only a few years ago), you hardly heard polyphony or just good musicianship in the churches over here in the States. It changed me spiritually and helped change my view on music liturgy in general. But that is for another thread. I don’t want to derail this one.

That’s just me, though, and my experience. I love England and will admit that I might be looking at things in a more positive light, and maybe with a little bit of a rosy hue.

 

[Kaninchen]

I expect that somebody’s got to live where the (tiny percentage of) Brits who attend religious services exist.

From experience of living in the US and Western Europe, there’s no comparison in religiosity and, in particular, the very idea of a Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democratic party leader talking seriously about God!

 

[Sarabande]

I expect that somebody’s got to live where the (tiny percentage of) Brits who attend religious services exist.

Well, I was living in London during my semester, so most of my religious experience was there.

From experience of living in the US and Western Europe, there’s no comparison in religiosity and, in particular, the very idea of a Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democratic party leader talking seriously about God!

That is true to a certain extent. Although, you really don’t see American Catholics talking about their religion here in the States. You’ll see it more with certain Protestant denominations - these are the kinds of Protestants that England and Europe don’t have much of.

Maybe on these forums and perhaps in intimate groups we’ll see American Catholics talk about their faith, but in real, everyday life, especially in areas where there are a lot of Catholics, it is kind of taken for granted and not talked about much. You might hear someone say that they were getting ready for their child’s First Holy Communion or what they did after mass on Sunday, but that’s about it. Pretty much the same as what I heard when I was over in England. The only times, I’ll hear devout Catholics talk about their faith is when they are in the privacy and intimacy of their friends and family. So, yes, our politicians might talk about it, but with real, individual people, it’s not talked about much, unless of course you are in certain areas of the country with overwhelming majority of certain Protestant denominations. I live in an area which has a high Catholic population. I know born-agains and they are the only group that will bring up religion on a regular basis and how you’re going to hell and all that. Otherwise, there really isn’t much of a difference with the mainstream Protestants and Catholics in my area (which is a very large metropolitan area) and with what I experienced over there.

 

[ora_pro_nobis]

Born and bred in London - I have been a Catholic for about ten years. The church I go to is always well attended (central London, mix of office workers and residents) and every other church I’ve been to is also well attended. People tend to be fairly private about their faith though. I have many nonreligious friends (and some family!) and religion doesn’t really come up as a topic of conversation unless they’re curious about something.

Most of the muslims I know (also including family members!) do not practice and wouldn’t darken the door of a mosque as it’s not relevant to them.

In the course of my work in the Legion of Mary I meet many people who are lapsed Catholics for various reasons, but are usually happy to talk with us, as are most of the muslims.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, I was living in London during my semester, so most of my religious experience was there.

The attendance figures speak for themselves. Of course, the very large influx of Poles to the UK over the past few years will have made a difference, especially in urban areas.

 

[Steadfast]

Seriously?

The fashion for reactionary Islam is just that, a fashion - just as European youth rebellions of the 60’s and 70’s became a fashion for revolutionary new shopping experiences in the 80’s onwards - and European Islam will end up being the greatest threat to normative Islam imaginable - skepticism, shopping and home improvements.

I hope you’re right.

 

[lemonbeam]

I live in England, and the last time I went to Church, it was full, people had to stand at the sides! But this church-going does not fit in with the polls, so I don’t understand!!!

I was just looking at this website (below) and it lists that ‘The percentage of U.S. adults who say they have no religious identity has more than doubled, from 7% in 1990 to 15.2% in 2008, says sociologist Barry Kosmin, principal investigator of the American Religious Identification Survey and a research professor at Trinity College in Hartford, Conn.’

usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-12-17-christ-christmas_N.htm

Also look at this: jbs.org/index.php/jbs-news-feed/4263

**What can we do to combat secularism? **

 

[Sarabande]

The attendance figures speak for themselves. Of course, the very large influx of Poles to the UK over the past few years will have made a difference, especially in urban areas.

How long have the Poles been coming to the UK? I didn’t know about that. My semester in London was in the late 90s right before 2000.

Is that also the case in Paris and Salzburg? Is it because of immigrant populations? I experienced the same thing in those two cities. All the churches I attended for mass were packed. In Salzburg, at one of the places where I attended mass, it was so packed that they had to break apart the eucharist into tiny pieces so that everyone could recieve. I was just a visitor in Paris, but was studying in Salzburg, so got to experience the people and the city better there.

Would it be safe to say that outside of the urban areas, people do not attend mass or service as well as they do in the cities? I don’t have as much experience in the country sides of France and Austria, for instance. I will say, though, during my honeymoon in England we spent time in the Cotswolds, Dales and Lakes District. In one of the towns, we couldn’t find a Catholic church and went to an Anglican church until we could find a Catholic one. That church was as well-attended as any church here.

Again, when I was studying in Italy, I found mass attendance low in the town where I was living.

 

[Black_Dog]

I live in a small rural town on the English/Scottish border - urban it isnt. We have a Catholic church, a Baptist church, a Methodist church, an Anglican church, a Scottish Presbyterian church and a Synagogue, all of which are well attended. And yes we have Polish immigrant workers too.

 

[Kaninchen]

How long have the Poles been coming to the UK? I didn’t know about that. My semester in London was in the late 90s right before 2000.

About a million have arrived since Poland joined the EU in May 2004.

Would it be safe to say that outside of the urban areas, people do not attend mass or service as well as they do in the cities?

In Western Europe in general about 20% of the population claim to attend Church regularly (less than half of the US figure), in the UK it’s less than 10%.

As to urban/rural, I don’t know. As I said, somebody’s got to live where the people who do attend church, attend church.

 

[Sarabande]

About a million have arrived since Poland joined the EU in May 2004.

In Western Europe in general about 20% of the population claim to attend Church regularly (less than half of the US figure), in the UK it’s less than 10%.

As to urban/rural, I don’t know. As I said, somebody’s got to live where the people who do attend church, attend church.

Thanks. The last time I was in the UK was literally in May of 2004, so I guess it wasn’t the Polish immigrants who tipped the scales in regards to packed Catholic churches during the times that I stayed there and visited there. I’m sure there must have been some other reason, because I’ve heard the same statistics that you posted before, although did not experience it anywhere, except in Italy. That’s why I was thinking that perhaps there might be a difference between rural and urban areas.

Thanks again!

 

[Sarabande]

I live in a small rural town on the English/Scottish border - urban it isnt. We have a Catholic church, a Baptist church, a Methodist church, an Anglican church, a Scottish Presbyterian church and a Synagogue, all of which are well attended. And yes we have Polish immigrant workers too.

It makes me wonder if these statistics are really true to life, because like you, I’ve only experienced well-attended services or masses when I was in England. I know it may not mean anything because I mostly stayed in London and not so much in the countryside.

I think these stats are like the ones for the States. It depends on the area and some areas will tip the scales a little more one way. Where I am in the US many Catholic churches have been closed or merged due to low attendance.

 

[Black_Dog]

It makes me wonder if these statistics are really true to life.

That’s the problem with statistics: a very small section of the population is “sampled” then the results are extrapolated to describe the whole population…hmmm

 

[CWBetts]

That’s the problem with statistics: a very small section of the population is “sampled” then the results are extrapolated to describe the whole population…hmmm

If the sample is large enough (at last about 1500 or so) and the sample is free form sampling error, that is, the sample is truly random, statistics can be quite accurate. I would like to see thae margin of error and confidence atatement attatched to these statistics