Religion or just morality?

[fhansen]

The basis of man’s immorailty, that we witness daily and also participate in at times, is his spiritual separation from his Creator. This is not meant to be, this is an anamoly, an injustice, in nature. Communion with God is the only thing that can ultimately guarantee righteousness for man; that communion is his righteousness. Meanwhile we more or less flounder; doing what’s right in our own eyes, doing right to the extent that we follow the “natural law” that’s written in our hearts, doing wrong if we stray.

 

[StormVet]

My family is from Southern Italy and Sicily so we have tough skin as well…lol. I tread carefully as religion is a very touchy topic especially where a debate or discussion is concerned. I, myself, am not religious anymore. I’m a traveller and a combat veteran so I’ve seen and lived too many things to put faith in anything except life and death. I was catholic for a lot of my life as well as christian. I’ve studied religious history and therein lies my disdain for any organized religion. I can’t worship any god who condones murder in the name of conversion be it catholicism, islam or anything in between . I actually lean more to the more ancient natural religions. I, so far, have settled on Pagan Odinism but even then not really. I really guess my religion would be called life. I believe that, while we’re here, we should touch others lives in positive ways not because of a book or because we’re told to but because it’s the right thing to do. Like what we’re doing here. Discussing freely and respecting the opinions and thoughts we have to further knowledge and to gain insight to other thoughts. I was always taught that we should strive to learn at least 2 things a day. What better way to touch a life than by sharing knowledge. I tend to prattle so I’m sorry for the length of this response. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.

 

[fhansen]

Well, there are plenty of Christian travelers and veterans. My ancestors were from northern Italy for whatever that’s worth. Still have family there that we visit now and then. In fact, my semi-literate grandmother from the foothills of the Italian Alps had one of the simplest, most beautiful faiths I’ve known.

Anyway, I, too, have studied various religions and came to believe, over much time, to my own surprise, in Christ and the God He revealed. The basics of the gospel, and therefore of Catholicism, is that love and goodness reside at the foundations of the universe, in spite of the messy and often ugly world we live in. Catholicism teaches that all humans are created good as well, along with the rest of creation, and worthy of profound dignity and respect even if we don’t always live up to it. And that God, the very source of love and goodness, ultimately desires nothing more or less than sheer bliss and happiness for his beloved creation, for us.

Yes, most humans act morally good overall, IMO, and God will judge accordingly in any case. In fact judgment, in Catholic teaching, is summed up in the Catechism by St John of the Cross: “At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love”.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

I’ve studied religious history and therein lies my disdain for any organized religion.

There are around two thousand passages in the bible that refer to justice for the poor and oppressed, the widows, orphans and refugees. At the heart of God’s message is that he loves each and everyone of us as he loves himself. We are commanded to do likewise.

We can look at all the violence in the world today, most people will never get true justice in this life. The only hope is that God will restore us to a greater good life after death.

 

[Ioana]

Nah mate don’t worry your story/writing style is quite nice. The only thing I’d say is that Catholicism does not condone murder in the name of religion. If you are thinking of the Crusades that was called for self-defense against Muslim expansion which was threatening to take over Europe/ parts of Eastern Europe so it basically started out as a way for the West to help the East not get under Muslim control (which could have meant the paying of a tribute and possible religious persecution). Nobody says European Catholic princes/kings/even clergy and popes were perfectly moral people but the Catholic religion didn’t endorse their immoral actions.

 

[StormVet]

I’ve been to catholic and christian churches and I’ve heard the passages and parables read and preached and I find that no one priest or preacher teaches them the same way. I realized as a young man that the bible, in all it’s wisdom, is a book of guidelines rather than a set way of life. If you take 20 people and have then read various passages, all 20 people will come up with something different. Once that epiphany hit me I also realized that religious worship was not meant to be a mass gathering of people being told what the bible was, it was a shared belief and discussion about the bible between folks of faith. Two people can be a church. Two people discussing the teachings and feeling good about it. I think the bible was not meant to be read cover to cover. Instead it was meant for people searching to fill something missing in their hearts, whether it be affirmation of life, a guiding hand or just the wisdom written inside. I know that when I was growing up the pains of life drove me crazy. After opening the book to a random page, I found I always took some kind of wisdom from it that helped me on my way. Something else that drove me from the catholic church was that priests and preachers were supposed to take a vow of poverty. Now we all know that can’t happen in today’s world but seeing the pope in all his resplendent glory and televangelists with their 6 figure incomes turned my stomach. (Also, in my other email, I mentioned conversion by force. That was referring mainly to the many instances of attempted conversion by all religions by force though it seems mainly by judeo-christianity and islam). The saying is that perception is everything hence my feelings on this matter. I do, however, know people who spread the word who have no more money than a homeless person. I also know many folks who work back breaking jobs and are very prolific in the teachings of the bible. Now, I’m not an atheist but I find that I have no faith in any religion. I do, however, have faith in the goodness, intelligence and caring of the human being. Call it god, or whatever gets you through the day, but when you boil it down to the fine sand that it is, it’s still people helping people and doing what’s right by folks. Like what we’ve been doing. Open minds discussing and enlightening without persecution. Thanks for at least hearing me out even if you don’t agree with me. I find this exciting.

 

[fhansen]

During most of the not-so-distant past centuries, the majority of believers were illiterate-the bible could hardly take the position it now holds with many-doing bible studies, church services, etc. People didn’t necessarily have the luxury for it time-wise anyway. In any case the Church was established to fill that roll, of teaching the gospel and providing a simple means to live certain aspects of it out via the sacraments, where basic Catholic theology is expressed and experienced in physical form. Of course the faith and heart of the believer always play a role; we can do it all mechanically and without understanding, or we can take it seriously and grow in faith and love for God and neighbor.

Most popes are humble BTW, and often poor, even though some in the past have coveted wealth and esteem apparently. Lots of history and attitudes that we didn’t live through, lot’s of growing pains, same message which is at the heart of it all; the Church’s people just need to follow the message themselves. But it takes time for people-and the Church- to grow, to perceive and value the light and be changed by it.