Religious but not spiritual?

[do_justly_love_mercy]

We are all familiar with people who describe themselves as “spiritual but not religious”. Less familiar is the description “religious but not spiritual”.

I would describe myself as religious. I participate in the sacraments and liturgies of the Church. I say prayers. I read the Bible. I live, as far as I am able, according to the moral teachings of Jesus and his Church. I am interested in theology, especially the Church Fathers and the early ecumenical councils.

However, I have never had any sense of “the spiritual”. I’ve never seen the point of silence, contemplation, meditation, etc. I’ve tried reading the works of mystics, but I never get anything out of them. They always seem rather nebulous to me. I much prefer a cogent discussion of some question pertaining to doctrine, ethics, or Church history.

I’m not even saying that I consider this to be a problem. I just wonder how common it is. There are people who have no interest in religion, but say things like, “I am a very spiritual person”, “I believe that there’s something else/more”, etc. Conversely, I have never had any sense of the sublime or the noumenal or the ineffable. I don’t have that indefinable emotion that people apparently have when they feel some kind of connection with something beyond this world. I am more stimulated by the intellectual and practical aspects of the faith.

I wonder whether temperamentally I am more like a Jew or even a pagan. I was discussing this topic with a Jewish friend, who seemed to think that my attitude toward religion was entirely unremarkable. He said that as a Jew he is simply required to perform the prescribed rituals and obey the law.

 

[Vico]

We are all familiar with people who describe themselves as “spiritual but not religious”. Less familiar is the description “religious but not spiritual”.

I would describe myself as religious. I participate in the sacraments and liturgies of the Church. I say prayers. I read the Bible. I live, as far as I am able, according to the moral teachings of Jesus and his Church. I am interested in theology, especially the Church Fathers and the early ecumenical councils.

However, I have never had any sense of “the spiritual”. I’ve never seen the point of silence, contemplation, meditation, etc. I’ve tried reading the works of mystics, but I never get anything out of them. They always seem rather nebulous to me. I much prefer a cogent discussion of some question pertaining to doctrine, ethics, or Church history.

I’m not even saying that I consider this to be a problem. I just wonder how common it is. There are people who have no interest in religion, but say things like, “I am a very spiritual person”, “I believe that there’s something else/more”, etc. Conversely, I have never had any sense of the sublime or the noumenal or the ineffable. I don’t have that indefinable emotion that people apparently have when they feel some kind of connection with something beyond this world. I am more stimulated by the intellectual and practical aspects of the faith.

Regarding prayer: “He who humbles himself will be exalted” (Matt 23, 12).

Catechism

2723 Meditation is a prayerful quest engaging thought, imagination, emotion, and desire. Its goal is to make our own in faith the subject considered, by confronting it with the reality of our own life.

2724 Contemplative prayer is the simple expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gaze of faith fixed on Jesus, an attentiveness to the Word of God, a silent love. It achieves real union with the prayer of Christ to the extent that it makes us share in his mystery.

 

[Beryllos]

Different gifts, 1 Corinthians 12.

It also means you have room for improvement!

 

[Funvod]

I think I’m kind of the opposite. I’m very much a go with the flow type of person and most of my religious life feels pretty spiritual.
Ahh that sounded wrong.
Like…
I think my experience of the Faith is very different from yours. I don’t not know doctrine and things like that, but compared to the people here who seem to know Church history backward and forward and have all these books and things on hand to reference about points xyz I’m definitely not as historically…talented? (I’m forgetting the word lol)

On the other hand I feel much more in tune with the Catholic Faith when mediating or praying.
Maybe I misunderstood your post, I don’t know, but I find your experience interesting since it’s so different from mine.

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

No, I don’t think you misunderstood at all. Thanks for your reply. I’m not somebody who can quote from the Catechism or canon law from memory. But, overall, I’m very interested in understanding things like the Christological controversies in the early Church.

A lot of people seem to describe how they enjoy spending long periods in prayer, attending silent retreats, and reading Julian of Norwich or Thomas Merton and so on. In the lives of the saints, one often reads about people who would spend hours in silent prayer, seemingly losing all sense of the passing of time. I have read quite a lot about people who practice hesychasm and people who feel some ineffable sense of immediate union with God. I just feel like that has passed me by.

 

[Beryllos]

You seem to be speaking of mystical experiences, ecstasy, trances and such, but perhaps these kinds of experiences are overrated. Saints also speak of spiritual dryness. Some of us are drier than others, habitually dry, or dry by upbringing. It doesn’t reflect poorly on one’s faith.

 

[tweedlealice]

Blessings
You are missing your BORN AGAIN experience. Our Faith is the Cake. Jesus is the icing. The Holy Spirit is the decoration in top. That’s Born again. You are hit w a bolt of love from God. It’s an emotional moment. Some point in your life will be special. A problem? Your calling out to God for help. It’s soul wrenching. God zaps you. You can’t put your Bible down. You might isolate for 3 days reading the Bible. You’re on fire, for God.
It’s wonderful. Religion is a legal thing. Follows rules of the church. The Holy Spirit frees you from Earthly bounds. HE. WHO THE SON SETS FREE, IS FREE INDEED. Now, you would be Spiritual. SEEK HIM TILL YOU CAN FIND HIM.

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

Yes, perhaps these experiences are overrated. I don’t know. For example, I used to be vaguely acquainted with a female Anglican priest who was also a Franciscan tertiary. She used to talk about the importance of spending a week every year in silent retreat, and used to talk about how much inspiration she drew from reading Julian of Norwich. I have tried reading Julian of Norwich, but I just can’t quite pin down what she’s talking about. The same goes for other mystical writers, St. John of the Cross, The Cloud of Unknowing, and so on. They all seem to be talking about an experience I’ve never had. Perhaps this forum is also unrepresentative. A lot of people here seem to talk about spending time in contemplative prayer, reading Thomas Merton, and so on. Perhaps the average person in the pew at Sunday Mass also does not have this sense of the mystical, the sublime, the ineffable, or whatever one wants to call it.

You are correct that it’s not that I feel that I have a lack of faith. I certainly believe everything that we say in the Nicene Creed, for example. I go to Mass, and I do believe that it is a sacrifice that makes real in time and space the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. I do believe that God requires certain moral standards of us, and I struggle hard against sin.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Religion is a legal thing.

It is more then rules and regulations.

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

[Diaconia]

A few thoughts:

• Our Church is both universal and large - in it are a myriad of different offerings for various types of people and personalities. Mysticism, contemplation, charismatic, devotional, and active types of prayer and worship. That’s a good thing. This is a Church for both the smartest people that have ever walked the planet (Thomas Aquinas) and the simplest of persons who might be illiterate.
• A life-changing metanoia experience is neither a prerequisite, nor a mark of holiness, nor a guarantee of future fervor or faithfulness.
• The various charisms of religious Orders demonstrate the need for markedly different ways of serving God and the People of God.
• Bloom where you are planted. Jesus needs every type of person to help usher in the Kingdom of God. I think your faithfulness to spreading mercy and love is an example to follow.

Deacon Christopher

 

[Inbonum]

I don’t have that indefinable emotion that people apparently have when they feel some kind of connection with something beyond this world. I am more stimulated by the intellectual and practical aspects of the faith.

There is nothing wrong with that.
I myself was always spiritual but I’m Catholic only for some years, to say; - I belong to one specific religion.

I think that your situation is good in way that you believe but you don’t see. That is faith. We will “see” when we die. Some people see spiritual reality during life on Earth - saints, blessed and other people. That is also not wrong.

On the other hand I am totally opposite of you. I have both, religious and spiritual aspect. I am very interested in intellectual and in spiritual and that never made me to see it as contradicition.
I love history of Church, councils, Teaching of Church, philosophy and early Fathers (which I studied at Uni for some time) but also easily fall into reading of mystic saints. And into those who weren’t mystics.

You are normal!

But I don’t understand this part

I’ve never seen the point of silence, contemplation, meditation, etc.

Since prayer is normal in faith, and meditation/contemplative/silent prayer are just ways of praying, they aren’t something unnatural to intellect and faith. Maybe you are not that kind of person but those kinds of prayer aren’t pointless. You can chose kind of prayer which suits you best.
Without silence you can be easily lost in noise of world. Silence is inseparable from God.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

If you didn’t have a sense of the spiritual, you wouldn’t be praying.

Some people are more emotional than others and that’s okay.

You don’t have to “feel” any particular way to be pleasing to God.

 

[new-kirishitan]

That sounds like a lot of the Chinese Buddhists I’ve met. They don’t really believe in any religious doctrine, they just want to profess themselves as Buddhists, because it’s the “Chinese way” as opposed to the “Western way”, or they just like the “ancient” rituals. But to me, it sounds more like if they are just pretending to be religious, rather than being truly religious.

 

[CelticWarlord]

However, I have never had any sense of “the spiritual”.

Greetings. I must run and haven’t had a chance to look at the other responses so may be repeating someone here. The first thing that comes to my mind is that we are physical beings rooted in a physical world with all our viewpoints and experiences arising from that perspective. In this sense I see nothing unusual in how you describe yourself. You appear to be a dedicated and common sense type of person who wishes to do no wrong. Some folks are just more grounded on the earth and are unabe to visualize the life of contemplation and silence that others are joyfully immersed in. Again, this only points out the vast array of personalities that God has created and the tremendous diversity of thought processes that we are blessed to have and to share. Thank you for bringing yours to the fore. Everyone is of interest.

 

[Ralph]

Interesting discussion. I remember a teacher once saying “my wife just reads it accepts it and applies it but I have to dissect it and munch on it” We’re all different. God speaks to us in all different ways. In His creation, in art, in fellowship. There is no right or wrong. Personally I found early in my Christian life, now around fifty years, I seemed drawn toward meditation. I seemed to read Scripture picturing myself in the scene and focusing on bits of it rather than the whole. I admit I’m a Merton fan. His speaking of the interior man fascinated me and greatly influenced me. But, hey, that’s just me. God created you to be you. Not me or anyone else. That makes you special to Him. Don’t sweat it!

 

[Dan_Defender]

You don’t mention the Eucharist and Adoration. Those two have to bring some form/degree of spiritual feeling, so to speak, otherwise you should be worried, in my opinion. As for locutions, visions, ecstasy, etc. I agree with the others those may never happen to most of us while on earth.

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

Thank you for your very helpful reply. Also, thank you to the many others who have replied. I am trying to respond to all the messages, but there are quite a few, so it may take a while!

Yes, you are right that our Church is wonderfully diverse. I suppose if we were all Carthusians there would be nobody to volunteer at the food pantries or the soup kitchens or even to be parish priests or theology professors.

I shall feel reassured that there is nothing wrong with being more practically minded.

Maybe you are not that kind of person but those kinds of prayer aren’t pointless.

Apologies, I didn’t explain that very well. I meant, I know that there is a point to silent prayer, contemplation, meditation, and so on, but I’ve always found it difficult to see what that point is for me specifically. Obviously there must be a point to it, because so many of the saints have spent much of their lives this way. But for me personally, I can only do it for a short time. After a few minutes, my mind begins to wander or I feel restless. I’ve always assumed this was a failing, as some people apparently spend hours at a time in silent prayer.

If you didn’t have a sense of the spiritual, you wouldn’t be praying.

Yes, I do believe in God and hence like to pray. I guess what I’m saying is that when I pray it’s a bit like sending God an email or a WhatsApp message. I’ll take literally a minute to say a few short prayers and mention something that’s on my mind, often when I’m doing something mundane. Then you have people for whom prayer is more like sending God a long, handwritten letter.

I guess you’re right about not having to feel any particular way. I think I have this idea, which is probably mistaken, that one is supposed to experience some kind of rapture or ecstasy or at any rate an intense spiritual feeling. But maybe a lot of people just don’t experience that.

 

[Inbonum]

But for me personally, I can only do it for a short time. After a few minutes, my mind begins to wander or I feel restless. I’ve always assumed this was a failing, as some people apparently spend hours at a time in silent prayer.

I understand what you are talking about, that is completely normal. There is no person in world who didn’t have struggles with concentration during this kind of prayers. Even saints except for contemplation where God is the one who does everything and soul just cooperates with Him. That is different but prayer is always grace and gift.
I myself sometimes have problems with being focused. It is important to keep going even if it seems like it’s not going well. It’s important not to get frustrated.
I think that you would do it good when you would start with that kind of prayer. It takes time and start is difficult but isn’t impossible. I mean, when you do everything you can then success cannot be missed. Even when success looks like failure.

That is just my opinion, don’t feel pushed.

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

You don’t mention the Eucharist and Adoration. Those two have to bring some form/degree of spiritual feeling, so to speak

Yes, you are right. I do experience a sense of awe attending Mass, because we are in a very literal sense in the presence of God. There is of course something deeply affecting about witnessing the sacrifice of the body and blood of Jesus in the Mass.

I guess I was thinking more about the more nebulous idea of being “a spiritual person” etc. that one often hears about from non-religious people as well as from Christians who practice silent retreat, contemplative prayer, meditation, and so on, or that we read about in the lives and literary works of the saints.

 

[Gab123]

We are all familiar with people who describe themselves as “spiritual but not religious”

The practice of religious activity must never be an end, but rather a means to an end, which must be to have a spiritual transformation.

The brief talk Below will get you on the right track and change your life. I recommend listening to it regularly as every time you listen you will get more out of it and discover that spiritual transformation means a death to your old self, so that You become an instrument of God’s grace in this world. Listen to the audio here: