Religious Freedom in Saudi Arabia

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phil8888

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Hello there,
I am in a discussion with a Muslim friend of mine, who denies there isn’t religious freedom in Saudi Arabia. She is from there. Well, actually, she is originally from Bangladesh, and her family moved there, but they are not allowed to own land in SA. She is living in Canada for the past 5 years or so. Anyway, I went on wikipedia and they had an article about the lack of religious freedom. For example, people cannot worship in public unless they’re muslim, they cannot carry Bibles, or wear crucifixes, and missionaries are strictly forbidden. Plus, if a muslim converts, he faces the death penalty. Anyway, basically she doesn’t believe me and says this is all not true. she even claims there are churches there and everything, which there definitely are not. She is very suspicious of the US, and thinks anything they say about SA is wrong and just propaganda because they want to invade it. In other words, does anyone have any sources to confirm the lack of religious freedom in SA, from the UN or some other official source? It’s frustrating, because she sends me these big long emails basically saying everything I think about it is completely wrong and I have no idea what it’s like, and I don’t understand the culture, etc. etc.
 
phil8888 said:
Hello there,
I am in a discussion with a Muslim friend of mine, who denies there isn’t religious freedom in Saudi Arabia. She is from there. Well, actually, she is originally from Bangladesh, and her family moved there, but they are not allowed to own land in SA. Anyway, I went on wikipedia and they had an article about the lack of religious freedom. For example, people cannot worship in public unless their muslim, they cannot carry Bibles, or wear crucifixes, and missionaries are strictly forbidden. Plus, if a muslim converts, he faces the death penalty. Anyway, basically she doesn’t believe me and says this is all not true. she even claims there are churches there and everything, which there definitely are not. She is very suspicious of the US, and thinks anything they say about SA is wrong and just propaganda because they want to invade it. In other words, does anyone have any sources to confirm the lack of religious freedom in SA, from the UN or some other official source? It’s frustrating, because she sends me these big long emails basically saying everything I think about it is completely wrong and I have no idea what it’s like, and I don’t understand the culture, etc. etc.
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She is from Saudi? You must be joking. I’ve been there and don’t want to go there again. As for churches, that is rubbish. The Vicariate has been trying for ages to get a solitary church there. When the priests go, they go clandestinely and as often as possible under some Western embassy coverage. They also have permission to celebrate as many as 5 Masses or more a day (secretly of ocurse)
 
phil8888 said:
nope, she really is. although, I just updated my post to say she is actually living in Canada now, for the past 5 years.
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Greatest respect to you (and your friend) but either she’s lying or she’s just unaware but doesn’t want to admit it. I can tell you personally that there aren’t any churches in Saudi Arabia - and this, and some snippets of other information I have experienced first hand and also from the mouth of the Vicar General of the Vicariate of Arabia and other priests and religious.
 
Having lived there for 2 years, I can assure you that there is NO church in Saudi Arabia. Like AJV said, that’s how we, Catholic, celebrate Mass there. We were fortunate to have church service every weekend because we lived in a secret US government installation. Anyway, your friend should know better. The Saudis treat non-Westerners like dung. I can’t believe she would defend such a repressive regime like the Al-Saud.

The Muslims can talk about religious freedom all they want. Until we have some kind of reciprocity from them, there’s no religious freedom. The Arab mentality is like that, they’ll ask you for more, but never give anything up in return.
phil8888 said:
Hello there,
I am in a discussion with a Muslim friend of mine, who denies there isn’t religious freedom in Saudi Arabia. She is from there. Well, actually, she is originally from Bangladesh, and her family moved there, but they are not allowed to own land in SA. She is living in Canada for the past 5 years or so. Anyway, I went on wikipedia and they had an article about the lack of religious freedom. For example, people cannot worship in public unless they’re muslim, they cannot carry Bibles, or wear crucifixes, and missionaries are strictly forbidden. Plus, if a muslim converts, he faces the death penalty. Anyway, basically she doesn’t believe me and says this is all not true. she even claims there are churches there and everything, which there definitely are not. She is very suspicious of the US, and thinks anything they say about SA is wrong and just propaganda because they want to invade it. In other words, does anyone have any sources to confirm the lack of religious freedom in SA, from the UN or some other official source? It’s frustrating, because she sends me these big long emails basically saying everything I think about it is completely wrong and I have no idea what it’s like, and I don’t understand the culture, etc. etc.
Click to expand...
 
phil8888 said:
Hello there,
I am in a discussion with a Muslim friend of mine, who denies there isn’t religious freedom in Saudi Arabia. She is from there. Well, actually, she is originally from Bangladesh, and her family moved there, but they are not allowed to own land in SA. She is living in Canada for the past 5 years or so. Anyway, I went on wikipedia and they had an article about the lack of religious freedom. For example, people cannot worship in public unless they’re muslim, they cannot carry Bibles, or wear crucifixes, and missionaries are strictly forbidden. Plus, if a muslim converts, he faces the death penalty. Anyway, basically she doesn’t believe me and says this is all not true. she even claims there are churches there and everything, which there definitely are not. She is very suspicious of the US, and thinks anything they say about SA is wrong and just propaganda because they want to invade it. In other words, does anyone have any sources to confirm the lack of religious freedom in SA, from the UN or some other official source? It’s frustrating, because she sends me these big long emails basically saying everything I think about it is completely wrong and I have no idea what it’s like, and I don’t understand the culture, etc. etc.
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Try a few of these links:

US department of State - International Religious Freedom Reportstate.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/14012.htm

The Center for Democracy and Human Rights in Saudi Arabia
cdhr.info/Campaigns/ReligiousFreedomBriefing

Human Rights Watch hrw.org/wr2k1/mideast/saudi.html

Amnesty International amnestyusa.org/Saudi_Arabia/Human_Rights_Concerns/page.do?id=1101942&n1=3&n2=30&n3=980

Methinks ur friend is lying. I have friends in Saudi - it’s common knowledge that the Saudis discriminate against non-muslims, even muslims who don’t comply with Wahhabism (state sponsored form of Islam). The Shari’a is the law there - churches are not allowed to be built, public worship by non muslims is strictly forbidden, priests not allowed in the country, attempts to convert is not allowed and any muslim who converts to another faith is punishable by death.

Ask your friend what the law in Saudi states in terms of freedom of religion. Ask her - did she see a church or a buddhist templet during her time in Saudi? If she claims to have seen non-muslim places of worship, would she care to supply the names and addresses of these places?

I’m not holding my breath…
 
phil8888 said:
Hello there,
I am in a discussion with a Muslim friend of mine, who denies there isn’t religious freedom in Saudi Arabia. She is from there. Well, actually, she is originally from Bangladesh, and her family moved there, but they are not allowed to own land in SA. She is living in Canada for the past 5 years or so. Anyway, I went on wikipedia and they had an article about the lack of religious freedom. For example, people cannot worship in public unless they’re muslim, they cannot carry Bibles, or wear crucifixes, and missionaries are strictly forbidden. Plus, if a muslim converts, he faces the death penalty. Anyway, basically she doesn’t believe me and says this is all not true. she even claims there are churches there and everything, which there definitely are not. She is very suspicious of the US, and thinks anything they say about SA is wrong and just propaganda because they want to invade it. In other words, does anyone have any sources to confirm the lack of religious freedom in SA, from the UN or some other official source? It’s frustrating, because she sends me these big long emails basically saying everything I think about it is completely wrong and I have no idea what it’s like, and I don’t understand the culture, etc. etc.
Click to expand...
 
I lived in Saudi Arabia from 1955 to 1974.

There are no churches.
 
I once debated a Saudi who insisted that there is a church in Saudi Arabia. In the entire kingdom of Saudi Arabia there is supposedly one church. It turned out to be a ‘virtual’ church - someone set up a ‘church’ on-line and gave it a PO Box.
 
While I didn’t live in Saudi Arabia, I lived just next door in Bahrain. There are no churches in Saudi Arabia; when most expats living in Saudi wanted to go to church they got on the highway and came to services/mass in Bahrain. Every month in the Gulf Daily News (Bahrain’s daily English paper) there would be an article on this priest or that pastor who was being deported from Saudi for holding religious services. That’s not freedom of religion. Try a Google search to see if you can find some of those articles to show to your friend.

Historybrat
 
I went to Bahrain numerous times. Man, I miss that place. Yes, Bahrain is more opened, but still there is only one church there. I guess one is better than nothing. Sacred Heart Church (Manama, Bahrain), is a Roman Catholic parish in Manama, Bahrain. The church is the only catholic parish is Bahrain and serves an estimated 140,000 people. The parish priest is Fr Thomas Quadros.

The church currently caters to the large expatriate population in Bahrain.The parish consists of Malayalis, Goans, Pakistanis, Tamils, Sri Lankans, Filipinos and Arabs.The main language used in services is English although there are services conducted in Arabic,Malayalam,Tamil,Konkani,Tagalog and Sinhalese.The church also has a large number of overseas parishioners from Saudi Arabia who come across the causeway between Bahrain and Saudi Arabia to attend Christmas,New Year and Easter services as Saudi Arabia doesn’t have any Christian churches.

sacredheartchurchbahrain.org/
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historybrat said:
While I didn’t live in Saudi Arabia, I lived just next door in Bahrain. There are no churches in Saudi Arabia; when most expats living in Saudi wanted to go to church they got on the highway and came to services/mass in Bahrain. Every month in the Gulf Daily News (Bahrain’s daily English paper) there would be an article on this priest or that pastor who was being deported from Saudi for holding religious services. That’s not freedom of religion. Try a Google search to see if you can find some of those articles to show to your friend.

Historybrat
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