Religious Orders/Dioceses that Are Open to Neophytes

[nsper7]

Are there any religious or Diocese (preferably in America) that are open to working with neophytes, especially if they have a Christian background (I was a Christian five years before becoming Catholic) and their desire for Holy Order predated their Catholic conversion (for me, it was as an Anglican/Episcopalian that I got bitten by the Holy Orders bug)? Obviously, I am not asking for a shortening of the discernment process, but merely a chance to begin discernment (i.e. Pre-Novitiate/Pre-Candidacy) and feel like I am actually moving forward and not stuck in transition.

Are there any groups that will forgo the two year waiting period for neophytes? Obviously, I assume there would be a trade-off (either a longer Pre-Novitiate discernment period or a long novitiate or time in Seminary, etc.).

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Are there any religious or Diocese (preferably in America) that are open to working with neophytes, especially if they have a Christian background (I was a Christian five years before becoming Catholic) and their desire for Holy Order predated their Catholic conversion (for me, it was as an Anglican/Episcopalian that I got bitten by the Holy Orders bug)? Obviously, I am not asking for a shortening of the discernment process, but merely a chance to begin discernment (i.e. Pre-Novitiate/Pre-Candidacy) and feel like I am actually moving forward and not stuck in transition.

Are there any groups that will forgo the two year waiting period for neophytes? Obviously, I assume there would be a trade-off (either a longer Pre-Novitiate discernment period or a long novitiate or time in Seminary, etc.).

I doubt that there are any groups that will forgo a waiting period of some sort for a new Catholic.

Here is the relevant canon from the Code of Canon Law;

Can. 1042 The following are simply impeded from receiving orders:

1° a man who has a wife, unless he is lawfully destined for the permanent diaconate;

2° one who exercises an office or administration forbidden to clerics, in accordance with cann. 285 and 286, of which he must render an account; the impediment binds until such time as, having relinquished the office and administration and rendered the account, he has been freed;

3° a neophyte, unless, in the judgement of the Ordinary, he has been sufficiently tested.

The underlined portion fits. I believe that most Ordinaries would consider a suitable waiting period as part of the “sufficiently tested”.

Whats the hurry anyways? Formation before ordination is a long time, at the very least 4 years of major seminary (most likely with another year of pastoral work) for a secular (diocesen) priest. Orders will be even longer.

Do you have a spiritual director? You have some work to do discerning whether your call is to the religious life or the secular priesthood, they are different calls.

 

[nsper7]

3° a neophyte, unless, in the judgement of the Ordinary, he has been sufficiently tested.

The underlined portion fits. I believe that most Ordinaries would consider a suitable waiting period as part of the “sufficiently tested”.

Whats the hurry anyways? Formation before ordination is a long time, at the very least 4 years of major seminary (most likely with another year of pastoral work) for a secular (diocesen) priest. Orders will be even longer.

Well, I am asking if there are any Ordinares (whether Bishops of Diocese or Superiors of Religious Orders) that would have have another way of determining of a neophyte is “sufficiently tested” or not.

The ‘hurry’ is because right now I am in transition. I know it will take awhile to become a Priest and I am all in favor of making sure Priests are educated well (I will probably go for my Licentiate of Sacred Theology), but right now I feel as though I am accomplishing very little.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Well, I am asking if there are any Ordinares (whether Bishops of Diocese or Superiors of Religious Orders) that would have have another way of determining of a neophyte is “sufficiently tested” or not.

This will be up to the Ordinary but, again, I highly doubt that there are any who would think any neophyte is ready to start formation, they have yet to live as a Catholic.

The ‘hurry’ is because right now I am in transition. I know it will take awhile to become a Priest and I am all in favor of making sure Priests are educated well (I will probably go for my Licentiate of Sacred Theology), but right now I feel as though I am accomplishing very little.

There are things you can do right now.

Discern, learn where your call is, is it to the secular priesthood or to religious life. You will need to know this as the Ordinaries are different, one is a bishop of a diocese, the other is the superior of the religious order.

Do you have a spiritual director?

Do you have a bachelors degree?

Do you have the prerequisites that are required to enter a major seminary?

I believe we have had this discussion before, haven’t we?

 

[nsper7]

Does anyone know of any such groups? AND PLEASE DON’T GIVE ME A LECTURE ON THE ISSUE! IF I’D HAVE WANTED ONE, I WOULD’VE ASKED FOR IT.

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

Does anyone know of any such groups? AND PLEASE DON’T GIVE ME A LECTURE ON THE ISSUE! IF I’D HAVE WANTED ONE, I WOULD’VE ASKED FOR IT.

I am sorry to disagree with you, but I don’t believe that Br. David was giving you a lecture. He was simply pointing out that the necessary formation is unlikely to be waived for a neophyte so they can pursue a vocation. Of course, it depends on the order and the diocese themselves as not all are the same. I know a young woman who was confirmed in the Church this Easter and has been allowed to start the application process to an order of Discalced Carmelite Nuns. Of course, I think it would differ greatly if she had just been baptized into the Church.

Is there an order that you are particularly interested in at the moment? Are you in contact with any orders? Do you have a spiritual director who is helping you to form your Catholic life? All these are important issues in discerning the direction in which you should be going. If you are particularly interested in a community, it would be wise to contact them and ask them what their policy is on discerning with neophytes. You may be able to get started in the early stages of discernment with a particular order, but probably will not be granted an application for entrance until the waiting period has lapsed.

I understand your impatience, but the orders have policies in place for a good reason. Neophytes are new members of the Church and most have such an admirable zeal for the Church that they want to jump in to new projects right away. This is called the “honeymoon” stage because, like new marriages, the zealous spark dissipates after a short time and it becomes serious business. Like I said, most orders are unwilling to waive this period because they have to be very discerning towards those who want to be in their order to make sure they are absolutely serious before they join. Formation in any order takes time and resources, which, if not careful, can be wasted on the wrong individual. Discernment with a community is a process of mutual discernment to see if the candidate is right for the order and the order is right for the candidate.

This might be a great time for you to get more involved in the Church community if you feel you are not doing enough. Look at the Church bulletin or your diocese’s website for Young Adult groups, or be a reader at Mass, or even join the choir at Church. Begin doing some serious spiritual reading (I can recommend some good books) to help you begin your discernment. Get involved!

I would advise you (not lecture you) to seek out a spiritual director if you do not already have one. A good spiritual director will give you the necessary balance in your vocation search and can work with you to find what God is calling you to. Just like you wouldn’t build a house with out blueprints, you wouldn’t build a solid Catholic faith without a spiritual director. There are some good books to read if you don’t know how to go about search for a spiritual director. (click on links for Amazon)

“Seeking Spiritual Direction” by Fr. Thomas Dubay

“Seeking God in All Things” by William Reiser

“The Practice of Spiritual Direction” by William Barry and William Connelly

I hope and pray you will listen to advice with a open heart and understand that we are not trying to lecture you, just merely giving you a heads-up to the difficulty you may face. I also hope you understand that if God is calling you to a life as a religious and/or priest, He will make it possible and lift the roadblocks out of your way when it’s time. Know that you are not alone in your quest to serve God. I have received the Sacraments early in life, but I am still unsure where God is calling me. Discernment is a process that takes many necessary steps and I have found communities that are unwilling to deal with my case, too.

I leave you with one final thought from St. Teresa of Avila (a very wise Carmelite nun who I hope to emulate):

Let nothing disturb you; nothing frighten you. All things are passing. God never changes. Patience obtains all things. Nothing is wanting to him who possesses God. God alone suffices.

May God bless you and give you His peace. I’ll be holding you in my daily prayers!

 

[nsper7]

I am sorry to disagree with you, but I don’t believe that Br. David was giving you a lecture. He was simply pointing out that the necessary formation is unlikely to be waived for a neophyte so they can pursue a vocation. Of course, it depends on the order and the diocese themselves as not all are the same. I know a young woman who was confirmed in the Church this Easter and has been allowed to start the application process to an order of Discalced Carmelite Nuns. Of course, I think it would differ greatly if she had just been baptized into the Church.

Just so you know, I was only Confirmed on the Easter Vigil of 2009. I was validly Baptized a few years ago in a Protestant group.

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

Just so you know, I was only Confirmed on the Easter Vigil of 2009. I was validly Baptized a few years ago in a Protestant group.

+JMJT+

Apples to apples, I think you should contact the communities or dioceses of personal interest to you, tell them of your story, and then ask them if they would be willing to let you start a communication line with them. Just because you can’t apply yet, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be willing to allow you to keep up with them. Shoot, you might even find a worthy spiritual director because of it!

I think it’s great that you received all the Sacraments. God bless you and be with you.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

+JMJT+

Apples to apples, I think you should contact the communities or dioceses of personal interest to you, tell them of your story, and then ask them if they would be willing to let you start a communication line with them. Just because you can’t apply yet, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be willing to allow you to keep up with them. Shoot, you might even find a worthy spiritual director because of it!

I think it’s great that you received all the Sacraments. God bless you and be with you.

Both of your posts are great and offer good solid advice.

One should not be driven in their vocation discernment by “what group would accept me” but by what group I feel called to.

Again, my advice is to get a spiritual director. Then get in touch with the vocation director for your diocese (many dioceses will not talk with you if you do not have residency within their diocese as they do not want to be tough of picking off vocations from other dioceses) and contact the vocation directors of any orders/communities that appeal to you through your discernment and though discussion with your spiritual director.

Any one in vocational discernment should have a spiritual director, especially someone new to Catholicism.

No one can give you the list you are asking for as there is no such list. A thing like this would be determined on a person by person basis because the guidelines as laid out by Canon Law says that a neophyte must wait.

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

Both of your posts are great and offer good solid advice.

One should not be driven in their vocation discernment by “what group would accept me” but by what group I feel called to.

Again, my advice is to get a spiritual director. Then get in touch with the vocation director for your diocese (many dioceses will not talk with you if you do not have residency within their diocese as they do not want to be tough of picking off vocations from other dioceses) and contact the vocation directors of any orders/communities that appeal to you through your discernment and though discussion with your spiritual director.

Any one in vocational discernment should have a spiritual director, especially someone new to Catholicism.

No one can give you the list you are asking for as there is no such list. A thing like this would be determined on a person by person basis because the guidelines as laid out by Canon Law says that a neophyte must wait.

+JMJT+

Thank you for your kind words. God bless.

 

[JReducation]

You must first discern if God is really calling you to the priesthood. For this you need a spiritual director. The spiritual director need not be a priest, but it must be someone who is well trained in the spiritual life. If you do not have one, you need to do that.

While in the process with the spiritual director you will have to discern whether God is calling you to remain a secular man or to become a conscrated man. If he is calling you to remain a secular man, then your path lies with a diocese. You have to contact the vocation director for the diocese of your choice. You must remember that if you go outside of your diocese to join another, they cannot accept you without the permission of the diocese in which you live. Before you contact a vocation director from another diocese, be sure that you have a good reason for joining them, rather than your own.

If your spiritual director and you discern that you have a call to the religious life, then you must also discern to which charism. You do not enter a religious congregation or religious order because it has opened its doors to you, but because you have something to offer the community and the community has something to offer you. It is a marriage of sorts.

Finally, if you have a vocation to the religious life, then there is the big question, do you have a vocation to both: religious life and priesthood? It is easy to confuse the two calls, because Catholics normally are ignorant about religious life and do not speak about the religious life and priesthood separately. They often assume that all religious men are priests. NOT TRUE. Many assume that all priests are religious men. NOT TRUE.

You have to begin this soul searching with a spiritual director. This is the testing to which canon law is referring. This can take years or it can be shorter. A lot depends on your situation.

In the end, you can apply to either the diocese or to a religious order or to a religious congregation or to a secular institute of priest such as the FSSP (which is a very holy group). But guess who decides whether or not Christ is calling you?

In the diocese, it’s the bishop. In an institute such as the FSSP, in a religious congregation and in a religious order, it’s the Major Superior. It is never our call to decide if we have a vocation. Those of us, like Br. David and I, are here because of the mercy of God and the will of our Major Superiors. They are the Ordinaries. Their voice is Christ’s voice.

You have to be ready to work with these folks and this is the discernment that is expected of you before you knock at their door. There is no other way in. The time can be long or short. That’s going to vary. But the process is the same.

Then there are the academic requirements. Whether you become a secular priest, a religious priest, a religious brother, or an institute priest, you must have at least a BA degree in most situations or its equivalent in work and life experience. But every organization decides what that is.

There are no dioceses or religioius communities or secular institutes who take anyone without the discernment process that comes before. This is done with a spiritual director.

If I can be of help to answer questions, please feel free. I’m on the formation team of my religious community. I know the system well. This is my second time on the formation team.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[m134e5]

Are there any religious or Diocese (preferably in America) that are open to working with neophytes, especially if they have a Christian background (I was a Christian five years before becoming Catholic) and their desire for Holy Order predated their Catholic conversion (for me, it was as an Anglican/Episcopalian that I got bitten by the Holy Orders bug)? Obviously, I am not asking for a shortening of the discernment process, but merely a chance to begin discernment (i.e. Pre-Novitiate/Pre-Candidacy) and feel like I am actually moving forward and not stuck in transition.

Are there any groups that will forgo the two year waiting period for neophytes? Obviously, I assume there would be a trade-off (either a longer Pre-Novitiate discernment period or a long novitiate or time in Seminary, etc.).

According to Canon Law, a neophyte is impeded from receiving Holy Orders except in special cases. When you are participating fully in the life of the Church, and you are dedicated to prayer, two years will go quickly.

Receive the Sacraments frequently, maintain a steady prayer life, be involved with your parish and the various church-related activities around your area, and try to find a good spiritual director.

The two-year waiting period may seem unfair,& it can be waived in some instances, but the canon lawyers knew what they were doing when they wrote that law. When a person converts to the Catholic faith, they often feel really enthusiastic about it- that enthusiasm can often be mistaken for a vocation to the priesthood or religious life. The Church generally wants converts to spend some time practicing the Faith as laypeople before going to seminary/religious life so they have time to discern if theyre really being called to those things- or if they’re confusing the excitement of their newfound faith (which is legitimate- no doubt!) with the call to the priesthood/religious life.

You’re not “stuck in transition”- God has put you exactly where He wants you, & He’ll call you to the next place that He wants you to go in His own good time.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

According to Canon Law, a neophyte is impeded from receiving Holy Orders except in special cases. When you are participating fully in the life of the Church, and you are dedicated to prayer, two years will go quickly.

Receive the Sacraments frequently, maintain a steady prayer life, be involved with your parish and the various church-related activities around your area, and try to find a good spiritual director.

The two-year waiting period may seem unfair,& it can be waived in some instances, but the canon lawyers knew what they were doing when they wrote that law. When a person converts to the Catholic faith, they often feel really enthusiastic about it- that enthusiasm can often be mistaken for a vocation to the priesthood or religious life. The Church generally wants converts to spend some time practicing the Faith as laypeople before going to seminary/religious life so they have time to discern if theyre really being called to those things- or if they’re confusing the excitement of their newfound faith (which is legitimate- no doubt!) with the call to the priesthood/religious life.

You’re not “stuck in transition”- God has put you exactly where He wants you, & He’ll call you to the next place that He wants you to go in His own good time.

Great post but one comment. While it may seem unfair, fairness really is not an issue.

No one has a right to ordination.

 

[JReducation]

There are two calls or vocations which the Church proclaims that they are not the right of the faithful, but the right of the Church to elect from among those who are called.

1. Holy Orders
2. Religious Life

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF