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wkj_123
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Does the church teach that you must repent before being baptised? If so how does this apply to infants? Thank you
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Reuben_J
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Baptism accomplishes two things - remission of actual and original sins.Does the church teach that you must repent before being baptised? If so how does this apply to infants? Thank you
In adults, they have to go through an RCIA (Right of Christian Initiation for Adults) program before being baptized, in which case they were taught about Christian belief and practice. Repentance is of course being incorporated there.
In infants, baptism remitted them of their original sins since they are incapable of sinning yet.
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Vico
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CatechismDoes the church teach that you must repent before being baptised? If so how does this apply to infants? Thank you
Faith and Baptism
1253 Baptism is the sacrament of faith.54 But faith needs the community of believers. It is only within the faith of the Church that each of the faithful can believe. The faith required for Baptism is not a perfect and mature faith, but a beginning that is called to develop. The catechumen or the godparent is asked: “What do you ask of God’s Church?” The response is: “Faith!”
1254 For all the baptized, children or adults, faith must grow after Baptism. For this reason the Church celebrates each year at the Easter Vigil the renewal of baptismal promises. Preparation for Baptism leads only to the threshold of new life. Baptism is the source of that new life in Christ from which the entire Christian life springs forth.
1255 For the grace of Baptism to unfold, the parents’ help is important. So too is the role of the godfather and godmother, who must be firm believers, able and ready to help the newly baptized - child or adult on the road of Christian life.55 Their task is a truly ecclesial function (officium).56 The whole ecclesial community bears some responsibility for the development and safeguarding of the grace given at Baptism.
VI. THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.
1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
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wkj_123
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So is repentance ever necessary? If one is baptised in the Catholic or Protestant church just to do it and doesn’t have any repentance or care about their sins is the baptism valid?
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Reuben_J
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Your question is answered in my simplified post #2.So is repentance ever necessary? If one is baptised in the Catholic or Protestant church just to do it and doesn’t have any repentance or care about their sins is the baptism valid?
RCIA is a comprehensive program. It brings you to understand what repentance is, rather than just for the sake of repentance. So yes, it necessarily for the baptismal candidate to make a 180degrees turn when he/she agrees to be baptized otherwise he/she can always decide not to go through it if he/she unwilling to submit to the teaching of Christ.
It is in repentance that our sins are forgiven but Baptism is an outward form of inward grace where that sins are forgiven when a baptismal candidate is baptized.
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PaulfromIowa
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We are saved by grace through faith. A person who has no care about sin has no faith.So is repentance ever necessary? If one is baptised in the Catholic or Protestant church just to do it and doesn’t have any repentance or care about their sins is the baptism valid?
The Catechism on Grace and Justification:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm
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Vico
Guest
When the proper matter and form are used and when both the baptizing minister and the person being baptized have the proper intention then it is valid.So is repentance ever necessary? If one is baptised in the Catholic or Protestant church just to do it and doesn’t have any repentance or care about their sins is the baptism valid?
Can. 865 §1. For an adult to be baptized, the person must have manifested the intention to receive baptism, have been instructed sufficiently about the truths of the faith and Christian obligations, and have been tested in the Christian life through the catechumenate. The adult is also to be urged to have sorrow for personal sins.
Can. 869 §2. Those baptized in a non-Catholic ecclesial community must not be baptized conditionally unless, after an examination of the matter and the form of the words used in the conferral of baptism and a consideration of the intention of the baptized adult and the minister of the baptism, a serious reason exists to doubt the validity of the baptism.
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Todd977
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The baptism would be valid but any insincerity on the part of the person being baptized would hinder the effect of the baptism until the insincerity ceases. See Thomas Aquinas, Part III, Question 69, Articles 9 and 10Summa Theologiae,.If one is baptised in the Catholic or Protestant church just to do it and doesn’t have any repentance or care about their sins is the baptism valid?
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Karen107
Guest
Baptism, the first sacrament or Sacrament of Initiation brings grace to the person thus saving them by uniting our Baptism with Jesus Baptism (Romans 6:3-4), but if a person sins they are in danger of losing grace and their relationship with God. Sin takes people away from God so repentance is needed when a person knows they sin. That’s what confession is for, to reconcile us to God because we have sinned.So is repentance ever necessary? If one is baptised in the Catholic or Protestant church just to do it and doesn’t have any repentance or care about their sins is the baptism valid?
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Cathoholic
Guest
wkj_123. You asked . . .
Original Sin is a “privation” or a deprivation of Original Justice. An Original Justice that humanity (Adam and Eve) once possessed.
(Original Justice was a “good” but now in Christ we have available an infinitely greater good. But we need to be Baptized INTO Christ.)
The gifts Adam (and Eve but for brevity I will just mention Adam here) was such, that when he sinned, it was a rebellion that changed his very nature.
Now fallen, the very best Adam can do, is pass on his fallen nature to his children.
Bear with me here for a moment please.
Birds have baby birds. They pass on to their progeny their nature.
Cats have baby cats. They pass on to their offspring their very nature.
Well fallen humanity, likewise pass on our very nature too. And as a result, we have fallen offspring.
St. Paul reminds us of that
**
EPHESIANS 2:1-3** As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest,** we were by nature** deserving of wrath.
The very NATURE of mankind was not totally deprived, but it was corrupted. And this “corruption” affects EVEN babies.
That’s WHY even infants can pass away (and the wages of sin is death, so you KNOW, not just adults but infants are affected by these “wages” too. Infants have affects of Original Sin).
We were born in a sense children of Adam (and Eve). Thus the NEED to be “born again” or “born from above”.
Committed Sins are the “sin of Adam”.
Adam had NO original sin. Just committed sins.
Babies do NOT have “the sin of Adam” or committed sins (yet) so they have nothing to “repent” of.
In Acts 2 (I think it is verse 38) when St. Peter tells the MEN of Judea to REPENT, and be baptized, remember the Catholic Church likewise tells MEN and other adults including women, they too must REPENT, and be Baptized.
But sometimes (at least from people like those who taught my Baptist Sunday School) we were mistakenly taught that this was an ineligibility clause for infants (despite St. Peter ALSO telling them the “promise” is for YOU . . . AND for . . . . your family!).
Remember. Since infants do NOT commit the sin of Adam, infants do NOT have any committed sins to repent of.
But since Adam, an infants nature is still fallen
ROMANS 5:14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
Notice there ARE people who did NOT SIN by breaking a command. These people without sin are almost certainly infants, profoundly mentally retarded people, etc.
ROMANS 5:12, 14 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned . . . . 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
Now you are likely going to ask about “ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” etc. And if you want, we can deal with that too.
In summary adults must repent and be Baptized. Adults must “believe” and be baptized as well. In those verses, those instructions are given to adults for adults. And to this very day, the Catholic Church upholds those commands.
But there are OTHER commands that the Church upholds too (such as putting on the “circumcision” of Christ, such as making disciples of all NATIONS, such as seeing “the promise” is for our whole “families”).
God bless.
Cathoholic
First of all, keep in mind the concept of Original Sin vrs. Committed Sins and how Adam was NOT created WITH Original Sin.Repentance and Baptism
Does the church teach that you must repent before being baptised? If so how does this apply to infants? Thank you
Original Sin is a “privation” or a deprivation of Original Justice. An Original Justice that humanity (Adam and Eve) once possessed.
(Original Justice was a “good” but now in Christ we have available an infinitely greater good. But we need to be Baptized INTO Christ.)
The gifts Adam (and Eve but for brevity I will just mention Adam here) was such, that when he sinned, it was a rebellion that changed his very nature.
Now fallen, the very best Adam can do, is pass on his fallen nature to his children.
Bear with me here for a moment please.
Birds have baby birds. They pass on to their progeny their nature.
Cats have baby cats. They pass on to their offspring their very nature.
Well fallen humanity, likewise pass on our very nature too. And as a result, we have fallen offspring.
St. Paul reminds us of that
**
EPHESIANS 2:1-3** As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest,** we were by nature** deserving of wrath.
The very NATURE of mankind was not totally deprived, but it was corrupted. And this “corruption” affects EVEN babies.
That’s WHY even infants can pass away (and the wages of sin is death, so you KNOW, not just adults but infants are affected by these “wages” too. Infants have affects of Original Sin).
We were born in a sense children of Adam (and Eve). Thus the NEED to be “born again” or “born from above”.
Committed Sins are the “sin of Adam”.
Adam had NO original sin. Just committed sins.
Babies do NOT have “the sin of Adam” or committed sins (yet) so they have nothing to “repent” of.
In Acts 2 (I think it is verse 38) when St. Peter tells the MEN of Judea to REPENT, and be baptized, remember the Catholic Church likewise tells MEN and other adults including women, they too must REPENT, and be Baptized.
But sometimes (at least from people like those who taught my Baptist Sunday School) we were mistakenly taught that this was an ineligibility clause for infants (despite St. Peter ALSO telling them the “promise” is for YOU . . . AND for . . . . your family!).
Remember. Since infants do NOT commit the sin of Adam, infants do NOT have any committed sins to repent of.
But since Adam, an infants nature is still fallen
ROMANS 5:14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
Notice there ARE people who did NOT SIN by breaking a command. These people without sin are almost certainly infants, profoundly mentally retarded people, etc.
ROMANS 5:12, 14 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned . . . . 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
Now you are likely going to ask about “ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” etc. And if you want, we can deal with that too.
In summary adults must repent and be Baptized. Adults must “believe” and be baptized as well. In those verses, those instructions are given to adults for adults. And to this very day, the Catholic Church upholds those commands.
But there are OTHER commands that the Church upholds too (such as putting on the “circumcision” of Christ, such as making disciples of all NATIONS, such as seeing “the promise” is for our whole “families”).
God bless.
Cathoholic
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