Reporting Liturgical Abuses

[Fergal]

Dear Friends,
In the light of the Instruction from Rome “Redemptionis Sacramentum” and the permission it gives to the faithful to report liturgical abuses to their local ordinary, will you report an abuse if you notice one? Hmmmmmmm Should make this one a poll maybe.
If yes why? and if not why not?

 

[davy39]

I guess it would depend on serious the abuse was. I would not complain about holding hands during the Lords Prayer, but I would report any homily by the priest that was against church law, scantily clad liturgical dancers, etc. Sometimes I think we knit-pick too much. Pray for vocations.

 

[Fullsizesedan]

No.

I wouldn’t report misbehavior by an employee of a store either, and for the same reason.

The priesthood is that individual’s livelyhood, he knows a lot more of what is expected of him to maintain that livelyhood that someone else would.

If you’re disturbed about a cashier at Walmart’s behavior you can go to Target. If you’re disturbed about the priest at St. A’s behavior on the job, you can go to St. B’s.

If you’re really disturbed, you can certainly privately tell the priest or give a general complaint to the bishops so he can correct all of the priests, but I couldn’t see a circumstance where it would be profitable to try and hurt someone’s livelyhood.

 

[robertaf]

Good Morning Church
No, I would not. I respect, as the Lord has told me to, the authority he has placed over me. This is between the Lord, the Bishop and the Priest. I will leave it to them.
I have no possible knowledge of any conversations that went between the Priest and his Bishop. The Priest vows obedience to his Bishop.
Let it be. I have enough to do to deal with my own obedience and my Spiritual Life. Prayer will suffice.
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_14.gif

 

[deogratias]

I would and I have - Redemptionis Sacramentum does not just give us Permission to report abuses, it says we have an obligation to do so.

BUT you have to be certain it is considered an abuse and not just something you don’t care for. This is not a Walmart and Target issue - we are ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH - we are one Body and so an abuse in one Church, even if we don’t attend, impacts on us all - just as my sins effect you and yours effect me.

An apathetic attitude about these things and just complaining without taking any moral action is how things have gotten in this state in the first place.

Be charitable, get your ducks (documents supporting the abuse) in a row, start with your pastor and got as far as the Holy See (which RS allows and advises if necessary).

See my other thread on this topic called PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR LITURGICAL MOUTH IS

 

[eLiturgist]

I seek Eternal Life, and we are to worry about someone’s livelihood.

If the clerk at Walmart has a hair color I do not like, then I will go to Target. If the clerk is injecting poison into candy to be sold for children to eat, I will tell the clerk on the spot that what they are doing is wrong, talk to the store manager, the police, etc. To not do so would be a sin of omission on my part.

I value the safe cany comsumption rights of children over this clerk’s livelihood.

OH, and Fullsizedan seems to have rather pre-Vaticatan II sensibilities, implying that the priest must know what he is doing and we can not possibly understand all of the those complicated rules well enough to offer help.

Fullsizesedan:

No.

I wouldn’t report misbehavior by an employee of a store either, and for the same reason.

The priesthood is that individual’s livelyhood, he knows a lot more of what is expected of him to maintain that livelyhood that someone else would.

If you’re disturbed about a cashier at Walmart’s behavior you can go to Target. If you’re disturbed about the priest at St. A’s behavior on the job, you can go to St. B’s.

If you’re really disturbed, you can certainly privately tell the priest or give a general complaint to the bishops so he can correct all of the priests, but I couldn’t see a circumstance where it would be profitable to try and hurt someone’s livelyhood.

 

[deogratias]

robertaf

If you indeed respect the authority placed over you, then you will respect the following two paragraphs from the Holy See in Redemptionis Sacramentum

**

6. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters

[183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.

**

 

[moonfire]

I’m glad I kept reading down on the responses to this question because I think it is our responsibility to report abuses, definitely. Depending on what constitutes the “abuse” and to what degree would determine how and to whom I reported it. For instance, holding hands at the Our Father SHOULD be addressed. It is not in the rubrics as something we as the congregation are told to do. Is it an abuse per se? Is it as bad as changing the words of the Liturgy of the Eaucharist? No, not necessarily. However, if a priest or congregation is willing to make exceptions to the “rules” in certain areas such as this, how confident can we be in their leadership in other areas, areas we may or may not be aware are contrary to the proper procedure of the Liturgy? I think in the holding hands case, it would be worth it to ask your priest why the congregation does it. Go right to him and ask why. I consider that to be “addressing” the issue vs “reporting” it. I think for the most part, people don’t understand why we do or don’t do things at Mass and if we don’t at least ask questions, we won’t know what is right and what is not.

In other more serious instances, it is our DUTY to report abuses - whether you call it “reporting” or “addressing” may be up to you… if a priest is doing something, anything, questionable (maybe it’s only due to lack of information on your own part) it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to learn more about it. That can be done on your own or by going to your priest to question him on it. If you get an answer that is unsatisfactory or goes against Church teaching, then again, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to report it.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately?) we have to take control over what we are being taught and do our homework. It’s like going to a doctor these days. Nothing against doctors, but sometimes they are not always prepared to understand or treat a particular situation we may have. Or give us a particular test for a condition we may have. It’s up to us to research things to get our own answers. It may save our life. Just as seeking the Truth in all things related to our Faith will save our lives for eternity. It does not do ourselves or the rest of our family any good to continue to be fed things that are not correct, orthodox, Catholic. That is not being “too picky.” That is standing up for what we believe in and helping our fellow parishoners, priests and our own families.

 

[ChuckODonnell]

If we observe abuses and do not do something about it, are we not partially to blame? As someone mentioned, this is our church! We are worshipping The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Abuse may come from many different sources and may be superficial or deep and serious.

I have never reported any abuse. I pray to God that I never witness a situation that puts me in such a position. What I have witnessed are problems with the liturgy that have been discussed in the GIRM or in updates from ZENIT.org. When these problems have been noticed I have waited until after mass, then quietly walked up to the person and GENTLY mentioned the problem and where they could read about how to deal with a similar problem.

Problems have included: spilled wine, dropped hosts, improper presentation of the cup holding The Precious Blood, tabernacle left open during parts of mass, etc. The other problems such as hand holding during the Our Father, clapping, talking, cell phones, gameboys, headphones worn by the altar servers, etc, I just pray, pray and pray that they learn why so many Catholics are reverent when in church.

At my oldest daughters First Communion, before mass, the assembled parents, families and friends were making so much noise that you could not hear yourself think. One of the parents went to the microphone and reminded people that this is a church, that Our Lord Jesus Christ is present and we should be quiet, reverent, and prayerful. Her announcement was NOT well received. It took less than five minutes for the noise level to resume its former level. That is also the last time I saw her at our church. She was reporting an abuse to the abusers. Yes there were two priests present, but they choose to not say or do anything.

So far, the people have accepted my comments and there has not been a confrontation. It is really hard to address even the minor issues with some people or priests. So many do not know what the GIRM is (as an example), or they have responded that this is the way it has always been done, or I have so many other parish matters to attend to (that this problem is Sooooo minor, that it is not worth Fathers time). So we should pray, and try to do the best we can to lead a Christ filled life.

God Bless