Reservations about traditionalism

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GIR

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I’ve been hungry for good liturgy for while now. I spent last year with the maronites and saw what reverent liturgy is like. Now i’m hooked, but I have some reservations about the traditionalist movement. I like (the real) vatican II, paul vi, JP I, II, and benedict. I think the novus ordo is a great thing when done correctly. Is there a place for me in the traditionalist movement? I just want a mass celebrated with the REAL spirit of reform (not the fake hippie stuff) and substantive homilies.
 
GIR said:
I’ve been hungry for good liturgy for while now. I spent last year with the maronites and saw what reverent liturgy is like. Now i’m hooked, but I have some reservations about the traditionalist movement. I like (the real) vatican II, paul vi, JP I, II, and benedict. I think the novus ordo is a great thing when done correctly. Is there a place for me in the traditionalist movement? I just want a mass celebrated with the REAL spirit of reform (not the fake hippie stuff) and substantive homilies.
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You basically think just like the rest of us.

We don’t deny the validity of Vatican II; only a very very small number of radicals do. Nor do we dislike Paul VI, JP I, or JP II: we might disagree with some of their actions/think they were not prudent in some areas (sometimes seriously so), but the vast majority of us respect them for their holiness. Most of us like Benedict XVI a lot 😉

I’m not sure what you mean by “spirit of reform”; I mean, to a certain extent, yes, the Church needs to “change” in some superficial ways to better carry out its ministry. But at the same time we need to not break what comes from the word of God, that is the Bible and the Sacred Tradition, which too many modern catholics do.

But generally yeah you’d fit in fine with us. fisheaters.com/ has a pretty good forum more specifically traditionalist.
 
When this admission of Anglicans goes through there should be a number of Anglican usage parishes. It will be interesting to see how many current Catholics will be drawn to them.

I always thought it unfortunate that the designers of the current mass took a Not Invented Here attitude and ignored the Anglican Liturgy in their work.

The English Reformation was somewhat like a divorce. We got the doctrine and they got the liturgy. 😃
 
John92 said:
You basically think just like the rest of us.

We don’t deny the validity of Vatican II; only a very very small number of radicals do. Nor do we dislike Paul VI, JP I, or JP II: we might disagree with some of their actions/think they were not prudent in some areas (sometimes seriously so), but the vast majority of us respect them for their holiness. Most of us like Benedict XVI a lot 😉

I’m not sure what you mean by “spirit of reform”; I mean, to a certain extent, yes, the Church needs to “change” in some superficial ways to better carry out its ministry. But at the same time we need to not break what comes from the word of God, that is the Bible and the Sacred Tradition, which too many modern catholics do.

But generally yeah you’d fit in fine with us. fisheaters.com/ has a pretty good forum more specifically traditionalist.
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I agree.
 
Hey GIR,

You should have reservations about traditionalism, if by that you mean assisting at liturgies that are not approved by the ordinary of the diocese. Maybe you won’t have to consider that option. I was in a situation where I had to resolve my reservations, and I arrived at the conclusion that it was permitted to assist at a Mass of the Society of St. Pius X. I don’t recommend that anyone lightly dismiss associating with Catholics who are accused of schism, excommunication, or a Protestant spirit.
 
OK, but I’ve been to fisheaters, and the experience wasn’t pleasant. I have a great dislike for the SSPX, and I was not allowed to criticize them on the forum. The site itself seemed almost to be designed by lefevrites. They have most of Lefevre’s writings on there, and many of the members were vehemently insisting that Paul VI was burning in hell. They also seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the jews.
 
So what are your reservations? Every Catholic should be convinced that they are traditionalist. Rather than concern for whether some who carry that label include you, perhaps we should be concerned that you include us? I can tell from your opening post that you and I would have some differences of opinion. But you’re for reverence. You are uncomfortable with declaring Paul VI to be in hell. You don’t like immoderate attention to Jews. You want good sermons. You don’t like Arlo Guthrie wannabe strumming his guitar during Mass. That’s all great.

As for your possible reservations, I am not a Fisheater. Never been there. If what you describe was what I found at my SSPX chapel, I wouldn’t be there either. If the Fisheaters, or the Society are how you define Traditionalism, then I suppose you are not, nor am I. But according to my reading of his life, authentic children of Archbishop Lefebvre do not have disrespect for any of the popes. Archbishop Lefebvre would be appalled that anyone would take comfort, or offend others by vehemently insisting that one of our recent popes are in Hell. If I thought he was the father of such a spirit, I would flee as far and fast as I could from the Society of St. Pius X.

Why do some who call themselves Traditional seem to act like giving scandal is the way to persuade? I do not call that Tradition. From what I can tell, most of us Catholics here are sincerely trying to save our souls even while we take a step here or there that another doesn’t agree with. In my opinion, anybody who is trying to obey Holy Mother Church, Eternal Rome, and the Apostolic faith of the Holy Martyrs of the second century is a Traditionalist. I believe that can include those who favor a reverent Novus Ordo, those who eschew the Latin Rite, those who assist at Traditional indult Masses, or those like me, who think it is permitted to assist with the Society of St. Pius X. I am sure I haven’t exhausted the list.

Regards,

Rory
 
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