Resources for Traditional Liturgy

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andersonbd1

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Hi,
Our parish has a new leader (a lay pastoral administrator). He is a great guy and I far as I know follows Catholic teaching pretty stringently. However, he is a former protestant minister and has no formal Catholic education. Since he’s taken over, he’s done some things that I don’t agree with. One is that he always starts and ends the mass (instead of our full-time “assisting” priest"). I believe this makes the priest seem like second fiddle. He starts by having everyone stand and say something to each other. Today it was tell everyone around you what your favorite flavor of ice cream is. So, that’s sort of how the rest of the mass goes. He’s done some things in the past that when pointed out that he shouldn’t be doing - he actually back tracked. Like I said, he’s a good guy and I know he has the best intentions. I’m not sure if he’s intentionally trying to be more progressive or if he just doesn’t know how mass should be celebrated. Our diocese is VERY far to the left, so he very well may have never seen a more traditional liturgy. Anyways, I’m thinking I’d like to give him some material about how celebrating the mass in a more traditional and reverent way is more appropriate. I know he holds evangelization in high regards, so I think that’s why he’s changed things the way he has. I think if he were to read some stories of the “evangelization” of orthodox diocese, that might help. Can anyone recommend a good book or web site?

Thanks,
Ben
 
I just looked at the post heading and realized it might be misleading. By Traditional Liturgy, I don’t mean the TLM. I mean a reverent, orthodox, celebration of the NO.
 
Where is the priest when all this is happening? The priest should be (must be) ensuring that the Mass is celebrated licitly. It’s the priest’s responsibility to put a stop to this–and he certainly has the resources needed.

You don’t need any commentary or any “third party” books on how the Mass is to be celebrated. All you need is the GIRM–General Instruction on the Roman Missal. Such resources are certainly helpful, but the GIRM is the starting-point. The GIRM is the law–literally.

usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml
It’s also in the opening pages of the Sacramentary, if you need to “show” him anything.

You realy should address your concerns to the priest. The parish is under his pastoral care, not the “lay administrator.”
 
Canon 515.1 “A parish is a definite community of the Christian faithful…entrusted to a pastor as its own shepherd under the authority of the diocesan bishop” In other words, no pastor means no parish.

There must be a priest (or more than one) entrusted with the pastoral care of that parish.

In any case, there is certainly a priest celebrating the Mass. It is for him to take a stand and exercise his responsibility to make certain that the Mass is celebrated licitly.

The person to whom your concerns (and they are legitimate and serious) should be addressed is the priest saying Mass.
 
ok, then I think it’d be good to get them both on board. It’s not just one thing - it’s a whole bunch of things, but mainly a mentality, I think. So, again - are there any good resources to get people on board? I have a feeling that if I say, “you should be following the GIRM”, the response may be, “you’re focusing too much on rubrics and not on the purpose of worship. If our bishop is OK with what we do, then you need to stop whining.” That’s just speculation, but really what I’m trying to do is not just point out where they’re wrong, but why they should be concerned about following the rubrics and the GIRM and why that is a serious matter and how ultimately it will benefit the parish.

I think things are so much different here in Rochester than other places, that people outside of Rochester just don’t understand. If we raise our hands and say, “this is wrong”, nothing happens. Even Rome doesn’t respond to our plea. So it’s fine and dandy for you to say, “that isn’t right - just show them the GIRM”, but that doesn’t work here.
 
andersonbd1 said:
ok, then I think it’d be good to get them both on board. It’s not just one thing - it’s a whole bunch of things, but mainly a mentality, I think. So, again - are there any good resources to get people on board? I have a feeling that if I say, “you should be following the GIRM”, the response may be, “you’re focusing too much on rubrics and not on the purpose of worship. If our bishop is OK with what we do, then you need to stop whining.” That’s just speculation, but really what I’m trying to do is not just point out where they’re wrong, but why they should be concerned about following the rubrics and the GIRM and why that is a serious matter and how ultimately it will benefit the parish.

I think things are so much different here in Rochester than other places, that people outside of Rochester just don’t understand. If we raise our hands and say, “this is wrong”, nothing happens. Even Rome doesn’t respond to our plea. So it’s fine and dandy for you to say, “that isn’t right - just show them the GIRM”, but that doesn’t work here.
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I do want to help here, but I’m at a loss for what else to say. Resources on the liturgy are only going to quote the GIRM (directly or indirectly). It seems that what you need is something to convince the people running (or should we say “in power”?) the value of following the GIRM. The problem here is that while there are such resources, they are the sort of thing that people who have a certain mindset will refuse to read. I can suggest anything from the Vatican document *Redemptionis Sacramentum *to the Pope’s own book The Spirit of the Liturgy. But would these help? Only if they read them. Perhaps you could present the priest with the Pope’s book? He might read it, or not, but just perhaps: he might never have read it because he simply doesn’t own a copy.

Please understand that I’m not saying “just show them the GIRM” what I am saying is that you should be approaching the priest who says Mass, and not the “lay administrator.” Because the priest is in fact the one in charge of the parish, and he is certainly the one in charge of the Mass. This holds regardless of what may appear to be the situation. It’s the priest who says the Mass, so the one who needs to hear your concerns is him. Whether or not he makes the right decisions is beyond your control.

I would suggest you give the priest a copy of *The Spirit of the Liturgy *as a gift (find some reasonable excuse that won’t be insulting). Maybe if he owns a copy, he’ll actually read it. Plant the seed.
 
I guess you’re right. Thanks for the tip. I’ve read snippets of TSOTL, but not the whole thing. I’ll check it out. Thanks for continuing the conversation w/ me despite my frustrations.
 
One is that he always starts and ends the mass (instead of our full-time “assisting” priest"). I believe this makes the priest seem like second fiddle. He starts by having everyone stand and say something to each other. Today it was tell everyone around you what your favorite flavor of ice cream is
**In the Latin rite, the Mass BEGINS with the Entrance of the Priest and other Ministers, usually during a hymn or Introit.

The Mass ENDS with the words “Thanks be to God.”

So this person is neither beginning NOR ending the Mass, as much as it may look to you.

But why is the Pastor tolerating this foolishness?**
 
Today it was tell everyone around you what your favorite flavor of ice cream is.
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Oh Lord. :signofcross:

Back in college, I went to a pretty well known parish in DC near school, and they would always begin with a “welcome to Holy Trinity! Please turn to your neighbors and introduce yourself to anyone you do not know”. Then the processional hymn would begin. Was it like that? How does he “end” the Mass?
 
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