Responding to a Mormon

[batman1973]

I was just giggn’ ya.

Ah. Very well then.

 

[ggarcia19]

my feelings gat hurt when I read the book of Mormon, I gat to chapter 13 and felt a sense of racism so I had to ask them to stop coming to my house, I even quit my job because the company (pest control) was owned by Mormons. I no longer want to support them in anything unless they are leaving there church…

 

[KendraM]

Hello, I am researching Mormonism and their beliefs about God and I found a Mormon response regard Isaiah 43, 44, and 45. Here is his response: “Some Christians claim that the Mormon doctrine of the Godhead and belief in theosis are not compatible with multiple statements in Isaiah that “beside [the Lord] there is no God.” These passages include Isaiah 43:10-11; Isaiah 44:6,8; Isaiah 45:5-6; Isaiah 45:21-22; and Isaiah 46:9-10. These scriptures in Isaiah clearly are meant to assert the supremacy, authority, and superiority of Yahweh over not only over false idols but over all else, including real gods.
The passages in Isaiah cannot be called upon to disprove LDS beliefs in separate divine beings in the Godhead or theosis. Their main point is to encourage Israel to stop worshiping other divine beings or idols but to worship Yahweh alone (see Isaiah 41:29, Isaiah 42:8, Isaiah 43:10,12,24, Isaiah 44:8,9,10,17,19, Isaiah 45:9,12,16,20,22.
Any other use of these passages distorts Isaiah’s meaning and intent.” The details are found on this page: en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/%22No_God_beside_me%22
How do I respond to this?

Here are some contradictions between LDS canonized scripture:
One God: *Alma 11:27-39,44; 2 Nephi 31:21; Mormon 7:7; 3 Nephi 11:27; Testimony of Three Witnesses.*Plural gods: Doctrine & Covenants 121:32; 132:18-20, 37
Get yourself some Mormon scripture to understand the many contradictions. God bless you. I pray you many help many people out.

Also look into utlm.org/ They have free material to understand Mormonism and will lay out all the contradictions, history, etc. Very good research.

Mormon theology: utlm.org/navonlineresources.htm

Oh and you can even look up the Mormon scriptures at lds.org/scriptures?lang=eng Just type in what I gave.

 

[HojaVerde]

I don’t think I’ll be able to answer each question in depth, but I would like to refer you to a talk by the late Elder Bruce R. McConkie at speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=602. It illustrates the nuance of the word “worship” in LDS theology. I’m pretty sure that Elder McConkie, Elder Ballard, the LDS commenter you referenced earlier and myself would be in agreement with each of the points in Elder McConkie’s talk.

LDS seek to glorify God the Father, not Jesus Christ. nor the Holy Ghost.

He starts out saying…

*I shall speak of our relationship with the Lord and of the true fellowship all Saints should have with the Father. I shall set forth what we must believe relative to the Father and the Son in order to gain eternal life. *

Regarding worshipping the Son and the Holy Ghost he says…

We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense—the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

In his talk he addresses each of these LDS beliefs and includes a paragraph or two about each…

We worship the Father and him only and no one else.
We love and serve both the Father and the Son.
Christ himself loves, serves, and worships the Father.
The plan of salvation is the gospel of the Father.
Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father.
All men must worship the Father in the same way Christ did in order to gain salvation.
The Father sent the Son to work out the infinite and eternal atonement.
The Son came to do the will of the Father in all things.
God, through Christ, is reconciling men to himself.
Christ is the Mediator between God and man.
Christ is our Intercessor with the Father, our Advocate in the courts above.
Our eternal fellowship is with the Father and the Son.
God was in Christ manifesting himself to the world.
Christ is the Way to the Father.
Christ proclaims the gospel of the Father.
Christ glorifies the Father and so must we.

I hope this helps.

Hi Gazelam, I wish you and all CAF posters a happy and holy new year 2014.

As you may imagine we agree to differ. Of course I respect your believes and I try to understand them better so that I can understand you all better, trying not to be judgmental. Despite the differences I sincerely appreciate you all very much. Thank you for your explanation.

It is true that the Son glorifies the Father (John 17:1). But it’s also true that the Father glorifies the Son from the beginning (John 17:4, John 17:24). Indeed they share the same Glory from the beginning (John 17:5). The Father is glorified by the disciples (Matthew 5:16) as well as the Son is (John 17:10, 2 Peter 3:18). Scripture also tells us to give glory to YHWH, to God (Isaiah 42:12, Revelation 4:11, Revelation 14:7). Who is YHWH for you (see Psalm 110:1)? You cannot glorify God without glorifying the Son (and the Holy Spirit), they share the same glory.

God is the only one who is before all things (Romans 11:36, Colossians 1:17). We see that from the beginning the Father and the Son are (John 1:1ff) -in the Holy Spirit- and that they loved each other (John 3:35, John 14:30). Thus God is Love (1 John 4:16). When we see in the New Testament that the disciples lived with Jesus and saw Him and touched Him (1 John 1:1-4), we can be sure that they didn’t see nor touch a simple brother, one of many. They experienced the Verb of Life made flesh (John 1:14), the visible image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15). Since the Son is God (John 1:1), it’s impossible that one who worship God in spirit and truth doesn’t worship Him (Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5:12-14, Matthew 28:9,17). The Son, who is God, came to save us (1 John 4:14), not to be saved or obtained salvation. How come has the Most High (Luke 1:76) to be saved? He is the Savior (Acts 4:12), our Creator (John 1:3), from whom proceeds the life (John 1:4), love, salvation, the forgiveness of sins (Juan 1:29), etc. We are the creatures, without him we cannot do anything (John 15:5).

God has created us to communicate His love to us, so that we can love as He does, so that we can partake in His love, in His life, in His joy and peace. He is infinitely Greater than us and all things. There’s nobody and nothing like Him. Remember that He can make us His adopted children (Ephesians 1:5, Galatians 4:4-6). This -the word adopted- indicates that we are not children by nature but by grace (John 1:12). If we were children by nature we would remain now children by nature and we wouldn’t need to become children by adoption. Only Jesus is Son of the Father by nature (Philip. 2:5-6, John 1:18, 1 John 4:9). Thus that like adopted children, we will partake in the inner life of God by grace in Heaven (2 Peter 1:4). This is the final implication of salvation. See the contrast with the Son: The Verb was in God and was God from the beginning (John 1:1).

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen!