Response to anti-Catholic father in law

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I can see how this is a difficult situation for you. I would start by stressing the fact that we DON’T believe that our works “add” to Christ’s finished work on the cross. In the email, your Father In-Law said, “Faith acting through obedience to HIM ALONE will bring you the Holy Spirit.” I would say that this is exactly what we believe. Christ’s work is finished on the cross. However, both of you agree that not every human being on this earth will not inherit the eternal life won for us that day on Calvary. He would agree that SOMETHING must be done in order to acquire that gift of eternal life (either simply accepting him or believing in the necessity of a “good life”). So, like he said “faith through obedience” is the way to heaven. We believe that Christ asked us to follow his word completely. In John, which is what he asked your wife to read, it says…“What must I do to inherit eternal life?..KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.” So I guess I would be as kind as i possibly could. I would try to stress that we dont think we are adding to Christ’s death, but simply following the Bible, and especially John when we eat his body and drink his blood, in order to acquire that amazing FINISHED act on Calvary.
 
Also, I think it is important to note that the intent behind the use of the “finished work of Christ” is obviously meant to imply that there is nothing we can do to get it. If that is completely the case, then shouldn’t every person walking the earth receive the gift, since it is “finished?” However your father in-law would agree that this is not true. If you are accused of works adding to Calvary, then wouldn’t it be true that he believes at least one work has to be added to Calvary? It is not a matter of no works as opposed to works. It is simply a matter of how many works. He believes we must accept Christ, which is a work that we must do to acquire enternal life. Is that adding to Christ’s finished work on the cross. Of course he would say no, and rightfully so, because it is something we must do in order to acquire that finished work. Well, the Catholics say the same thing as well. We are not adding to His Finished work, but meerly following his Commandments in order to remain in His love and likeness. Like, when we are told to work out our Salvation with fear and trembling and “unless you eat my body and drink my blood you have no life in you.”
 
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EPHRIAM777:
IF what he means is “JESUS CHRIST” did the “entire work” that ONLY he could do in full …for our Salvation by paying the entire price for our sins on the cross…
Then he’s right about no more good works with regards to our Salvation being needed to be done by us…!

See…Faith in Jesus Christ alone… brings the Holy Spirit into a person’s life …and THEN it’s the Holy Spirit dwelling in the person that leads the person to do good works…and not the person themself…!
So really we can’t boast to anyone about doing any good works in and of ourself…because it’s really not us doing them…it’s the Holy Spirit doing them through us …and not us ourself…!

(( Did I just repeat myself with all that…??? )) LOL 👍
No Catholic denies that Christ did the “entire work” that only He could do in full. Further, no Catholic believes that they can “earn” their way to heaven; that is, compel God to let them into heaven based on their own merits or works. I repeat, that is not any part of Catholic teaching.

But this issue of works, which Protestants seem to fret about much more than Catholics, just won’t go away, and I don’t know why so many Protestants obsess over Catholics and works.

You say that the works are of the Holy Spirit and not of us. The problem with that formulation is that if they are all of God and not at all of us, then we would do them without fail, without resistance, without effort. A fruit tree bears its fruit without effort, without struggles. But have you done every work planned for you by God? Have you done them completely? Have you ever had to push yourself to do the work of God, to will yourself to do things that you would not otherwise have done? I sure know I have! Unlike the fruit trees, often I struggle and exert myself to bear my fruit. It does not always come easily or naturally, and many times I have to will myself to do God’s will.

It is that act of will, that act of effort, of conscious denial and/or self-giving, that constitutes our part in the works which the Holy Spirit calls us to do. I agree that we can do no good without God, but it doesn’t follow that with God we do all good, without effort or force of will. We can and do still choose whether to cooperate with God on a daily, hourly, minutely (???) basis. Good works demand something from us, they are not natural and effortless. We do not become good works-producing robots when we become Christians. This conscious effort to do God’s will is what we bring to the matter, and if we refuse over and over to make that effort, to exert our God-given will in obedience to Him, then we have faith without works, we have rejected the Holy Spirit, and our faith is dead.

Do you disagree with any of that?
 
For those who believe faith alone is what saves us, ask them to explain what Paul means in this verse;

Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling *work out ** your salvation.
Philipians 2:12
 
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EPHRIAM777:
Eph replies…

Well in context from Acts we see that the ones that “heard” the word and had faith were Baptised…Since no one can really teach a 5 day old baby from God’s word…this can’t mean infant baptism…

Infants that young don’t understand words or any language yet…! Let alone the Gospel of Jesus Christ…So obviously this is speaking of “all” that heard the word and understood what was being said and taught to them…!

Thus we MUST conclude all that were old enough to understand the Gospel were Baptised…!

Baptism IS important but one thing we all must remember is…people don’t go to hell for not being Baptised…
People go to hell for NON Faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior…! 👍
The ancient Catholic Church begs to differ with your understanding.
Jesus said to let the little children come to Him. It was the Apostles themselves that taught the church what Jesus had taught them by sending the Holy Spirit to help them remember all the He taught them so they could pass it on.

Our beloved St. Peter says (1Peter 3: 18-22) "For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit. In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who had gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities and powers subject to him.

St. Irenaeus in his writing Against Heresies (A.D. 180-199)
“He came to save all through Himself, - all, I say, who through Him are reborn in God, - infants and children and youths and old men. Therefore He passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age and at the same time becoming for them an example of piety, of righteousness afnd of submission…”

St. Hippolytus of Rome (A.D 235) wrote a detailed explanation of the Rite of Baptism. Here is some of it.
"At dawn a prayer shall be offered over the water. Where there is no scarsity of water the stream shall flow through the baptismal font or pour into it from above; but if water is scarce, whether as a constant condition or on occasion, then use whatever water is available.

Let them remove their clothing. Baptise first the children; and if they can speak for themselves, let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives (godparent) speak for them."

Origen(A.D. 185 - 253/254) “Every soul that is born into the flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. … And if it should seem necessary to do so, there may be added to the aforementioned considerations the fact that in the Church, Baptism is given for the remission of sins; and according to the usage of the Church, Baptism is given even to infants. And indeed if there were nothing in infants which required a remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of Baptism would seem superfluous.”

St. Gregory of Nazianz A.D. 330-389) "Do you have an infant child? Allow no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood. From this most tender age let him be consecrated by the Spirit. So you fear the seal because of the weakness of nature? O what a pusillanimous mother and of how little faith! …Give your child the Trinity, the great and noble Protector."

Do I need to go on? Your interpretation is clearly defective as the Church that was taught by the great Aposltes clearly understood that infants were to receive Christ’s promise in Baptism.
 
I have been dealing with this kind of thing for a while. Have her send him this:

You got the post I just sent, as it stated take heed. I love you baby girl. I pray you will know the TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.

Gosh Dad, I love you too, and I say that same prayer for you every day.

Look to the author and the perfecter of your faith Jesus alone.

You see that is the thing, Dad, Jesus never wrote anything. And, the Bible says that only the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, so how in the world can I go against the Bible?

Have you started reading the book of John yet?

Yes, and I am disturbed by it. I am sure that you have read John chapter 6, Dad, and I have too. Do you realize that Jesus tells people that only those who eat his flesh and drink his blood will inherit eternal life? He says this to a group of his own deciples, Dad, and a bunch of them leave over it! Here is the amazing thing, it can’t be symbolic. If it had been, Jesus would have told them right there. He does not do that, Dad! He turns to the twelve and asks them if they are going to leave over it too! Why would Jesus make such a point of this if it were not true? God is love for all, so how would he let people just walk away like that if it was not a very serious matter?

Please do, you must learn the word for you to know what is false and what is truth.Repent and trust in Jesus ALONE for your salvation. He has done the work our part is to fight the good fight of faith and let not the devil steal it from us by telling us there is more work than the work Christ has already done. He hung on the cross and His last words were IT IS FINISHED. Our good works added to that means nothing.

But, Dad, how about James? How can James say that faith without works is dead, unless….faith without works is…well…dead? And it gets worse than that Dad. Matthew 25: 31-46. Here Jesus tells people himself that he will return and judge people by what they have done. Those who have done his will shall enter Heaven, those who have not performed his work will not. How can Jesus be wrong? Why would he say it if there was nothing for us to do but believe? This happens over and over in scripture, Dad, and we all know that the Bible is our guide.

Faith acting through obedience to HIM ALONE will bring you the Holy Spirit. and your assurance of salvation…not man…this is Christian

The weird thing here, Dad, and this is something that I would not believe had I not looked into it, is that the Catholic teaching is right there with you on this one. The bottom line is that they do not teach that you can work your way into heaven. What they teach, and I looked this up, is that you are saved through the Grace of Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for us on the cross. They claim, as you do, that works are an extension of that belief. The only point that they make is that you cannot claim to believe and then do nothing about living that belief. We say the same thing. You have to live the belief every day. This is why Jesus tells us that not everyone who says to him, “Lord, Lord” will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only those who have done the will of the father.

The thing is, Dad, I think that the Catholics have a point on this stuff. I find it right in scripture. I have also read a few Protestant websites on the subject, but they are pretty wrong. They all seem to teach that Catholics think that they are saved by works, and I already know that is not the case. So, how can I trust them when they are wrong on such a critical point?
 
Here was his response to what we sent him:
Suggestion: Why don’t you look in to that information about what was said
about the Catholic Church and the Uchrist and READ THE BIBLE FOR YOUR
SELF>Have you started reading the book of JOHN YET?..Love Dad
I was thinking about asking something like, “What do you expect me to find in John?” And

Also I wonder what information he is talking about that was said about the Catholic Church, if he is talking about that first message he sent, there was nothing to look into. They were blind and warrentless attacks on catholicism with no facts to back them up, all speculation and opinion.

What do you guys think should be said from here?
 
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Roman_Catholic:
I was thinking about asking something like, “What do you expect me to find in John?” And
The Whole Book of John is a challenge to the Early Christians and to us, the reader, to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah.

Look at John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

He’ll tell you to believe and you are saved. But ask him to reconcile this with John 3:36 - Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.

Ask him if where obedience fits in.

Notworthy
 
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