Response to the fundamentalist charge that all Christian religions are just "window dressing"

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So there is Ignatius’s letters to the Smyrnaeans and the Philadelphians.

I do not remember which is which, but Ignatius (in no uncertain terms) addresses the Eucharist, and that it should be administered by the bishop.

He indicated the congregation should maintain loyalty to the bishop, and that those who create schism in the Church will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

He goes on to say there is one Eucharist, one altar, one bishop, etc.

However, just as important is who he was and when. Antioch was where the original Christians went after fleeing Jerusalem (per Acts 11). Historians also believe he was a student of John the Apostle and may have been ordained by Peter

He also named the church Catholic.
 
mattp0625 said:
Be that as it may, all of nondenominational theology is rooted in Protestantism whether or not they want to distance themselves from it.

Certain denominations refer to themselves as fundamentalist as well.
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No, non-denominational Evangelical theology is almost completely divorced from mainline Episcopalian, Methodist and Presbyterian “Protestant” theology.

They are radically different. It is more than just a label.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
No, non-denominational Evangelical theology is almost completely divorced from mainline Episcopalian, Methodist and Presbyterian “Protestant” theology.

They are radically different. It is more than just a label.

-Tim-
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It might be more accurate to say that Evangelical theology (and I use the term loosely) is an outgrowth of Baptist theology. At least an Evangelical will feel most akin to a Baptist.

The Baptist denomination is a later morph of the Anabaptists and Sacramentaries of the Reformation. Their Protestant theology follows the Radical Reformation which goes much farther (in denying virtually all of the Sacraments -Baptism included-) than Luther or Calvin.
 
TimothyH said:
No, non-denominational Evangelical theology is almost completely divorced from mainline Episcopalian, Methodist and Presbyterian “Protestant” theology.

They are radically different. It is more than just a label.

-Tim-
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Sola scriptura? Check
Sola Fide? Check- in one form or another
Once saved always saved? (More often than not, check) An evolution of Calvinism
Rejection of the magisterium? Check
Belief that the Holy Spirit will lead you into correct bible translation? Check
Exclusion of the deuterocanonical books? Check
Focus on Romans as did Luther? Check.
 
billy15 said:
Thank you for the responses everyone, many of them are exactly what I was thinking, and some I even mentioned to him. It’s still my hope to find something by a saint or doctor of the Church. Did Bl. John Henry Newman ever right anything on the subject? Or perhaps another saint who had converted?

I should have clarified on what my friend said. What he meant was the true meaning behind “once saved, always saved”; that one believe in Christ’s sacrifice, and that accepting Him as your Lord and Savior is enough for salvation. He acknowledges that “even the demons believe in God”, but also believes that justification is a one time thing. He went as far as to say that even if he had molested and murdered a bunch of children, one’s salvation still couldn’t be lost. Apparently, he’s mixed up redemption with salvation.

Therefore, because of his beliefs, and because he has no animosity towards Catholicism, he believes that I am saved, and therefore all the different Christian denominations throughout the world are for naught and just “window dressing”.

This all stemmed from a conversation on the Good Thief, St. Dismas. Like many Protestants, this is supposed to be the “smoking gun” that baptism is not necessary for salvation. Obviously, we know that it is. But if one subscribes to OSAS, then baptism obviously becomes nothing more than a symbol, and the need for a Church is gone, meaning that according to this thought process, the only differences between Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Evangelicals is that each has some different decorations hanging up. This is why I’d like to see something from the saints or modern theologians. Perhaps it won’t sway him, but we have a 2,000 year history compared to his 200 year history to refer back to. Someone else’s words who can express these things better may be more effective than mine. Who has written well that the Catholic Church is not just one of many different Christian denominations to follow? I like what Bishop Sheen said in that each religion possesses SOME of the Truth, but the only one to possess all of it is the Catholic Church. I’d love to learn more on that subject. Thanks again for all your responses.
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St Dismas is the most misused saint ever.

Jesus on the cross is God.
God is not bound by the sacraments. The sacraments are given to us for our acceptance and participation, not to subject God himself to them.
How easily we reduce God to just another formula.
 
billy15 said:
I’ve only recently been reading and listening to Martignoni’s work in recent months, and what I’ve heard, I’ve liked.** I don’t think he’s overly condescending as you mentioned Steve B, **but nobody is perfect. We can all do better in how we charitably spread the faith. His talk on OSAS that I heard was pretty phenomenal, and had said some things that I had never considered. I’m curious to know if he’s ever broached the topic of “window dressing”, but as I’ve had trouble this whole time, it’s hard to put into a search engine exactly what I’m looking for and get the right results, which is why we have this thread here now.
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That wasn’t me. I didn’t mention Martignoni. You’re thinking of someone else. possibly #17
 
TimothyH said:
I’ve met John Martignoni. He has spoken at my parish. He has lots of problems as an Apologist. To start with, his style is extremely angry and condescending - that alone makes him a non-starter for many Christians who ascribe to the great commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves.

-Tim–
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Wow, being a little hard on John Martignoni aren’t you? After meeting him all of one time at your parish. How very charitable of you. Had a long conversation with him, did you? What exactly was it he said that made you think he is “extremely angry” and “condescending”? Was spit flying from his mouth as he spouted murderous venom against those Canaanite, er Protestant, dogs? Maybe he turned some tables over and got out a whip or called people liars and hypocrites and blind guides and sons of murderers and such? That definitely would show he was extremely angry and would make him a “non-starter” for many Christians, right?
 
mattp0625 said:
Sola scriptura? Check
Sola Fide? Check- in one form or another
Once saved always saved? (More often than not, check) An evolution of Calvinism
Rejection of the magisterium? Check
Belief that the Holy Spirit will lead you into correct bible translation? Check
Exclusion of the deuterocanonical books? Check
Focus on Romans as did Luther? Check.
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Methodists don’t believe in Sola Fide or Sola Scriptura. You literally don’t know what you are talking about.

-Tim-
 
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