Responses to Jewish criticism of Christian interpretation of Old Testament prophets?

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I’ve been reading a lot of apologetical stuff lately, in the interest of strengthening my faith. Playing “devil’s advocate” (literally) with myself, challenging my beliefs while knowing that I will find answers to whatever challenges I can think up. So far I haven’t been very disappointed - there’s 2,000 years of defense for this religion and any reasonable objection has its answer.

There is one thing that’s bugging me though.

The most damning condemnation of the Christian religion for me hasn’t come from atheists, modernists, or any of the other “usual suspects” but from Jews. The Jews criticize pretty much every messianic prophecy and argue that none of them were fulfilled by Christ, and in a convincing way. (of course I am not saying “the jews are profaning god!” or any such nonsense; they’re jews; of course they don’t believe the messianic prophecies were fulfilled)

Where can I find an answer to these objections? Been looking, haven’t found much honestly.
 
Update: I’ve solved some of these for myself. The Jews seem to interpret literally those passages we take to be figurative, and figuratively those passages we take to be literal 😛

Here are some “unfulfilled prophecies” that Jews claim prove Jesus to not be the true Messiah:

“And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)

I can think of two answers off the top of my head: 1.) He called all people, Jews and Gentile, Judah, Benjamin, the Lost Tribes, and us barbarians, into his Church, and 2.) Does this point towards the Book of Revelation? I’m very ignorant of that book but I do vaguely remember something about the Jews being taken back to Israel (or is that just a false Protestant interpretation?) Anyway, moving on…

“The temple must be rebuilt”

The temple is Christ. Christ is the temple. We worship God through Christ whereas the the Chosen People worshiped God through the Temple under the Law of Moses.

“…they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)

Isn’t this verse meant to be figurative? Christ taught us peace. Or could it rather be looking toward the Kingdom of God during the end-times or whatever? Again, I’m pretty ignorant of Catholic eschatology.

I don’t know, there’s some stuff to go on for now.

Some criticisms are to be found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_prophecy_in_Christianity#Unfilled_Prophecies

There’s a lot more further down the page dealing with specific Jewish criticisms.

Don’t forget my sig!

edit: Another question: Is the Second Coming predicted in the Old Testament? Because I think that would strengthen our position quite a bit.
 
John92 said:
Update: I’ve solved some of these for myself. The Jews seem to interpret literally those passages we take to be figurative, and figuratively those passages we take to be literal 😛

Here are some “unfulfilled prophecies” that Jews claim prove Jesus to not be the true Messiah:

“And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)

I can think of two answers off the top of my head: 1.) He called all people, Jews and Gentile, Judah, Benjamin, the Lost Tribes, and us barbarians, into his Church, and 2.) Does this point towards the Book of Revelation? I’m very ignorant of that book but I do vaguely remember something about the Jews being taken back to Israel (or is that just a false Protestant interpretation?) Anyway, moving on…

“The temple must be rebuilt”

The temple is Christ. Christ is the temple. We worship God through Christ whereas the the Chosen People worshiped God through the Temple under the Law of Moses.

“…they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)

Isn’t this verse meant to be figurative? Christ taught us peace. Or could it rather be looking toward the Kingdom of God during the end-times or whatever? Again, I’m pretty ignorant of Catholic eschatology.

I don’t know, there’s some stuff to go on for now.

Some criticisms are to be found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_prophecy_in_Christianity#Unfilled_Prophecies

There’s a lot more further down the page dealing with specific Jewish criticisms.

Don’t forget my sig!

edit: Another question: Is the Second Coming predicted in the Old Testament? Because I think that would strengthen our position quite a bit.
Click to expand...
I’d first like to point out John 12:39-41 This explains why the Jews can’t understand. They have been literally blinded by God. This was a prophecy of Isaias. So, until God un-blinds thier eyes, they will not see. The Jews have set in their minds how “they see it” is going to happen. God is going to come and rise their earthly kingdom…this what they are looking for…and that Messiah did not come …so, in their eyes, the Messiah has not yet come. They do not believe Jesus when he said that His kingdom is not of this world…because, thats NOT WHAT THEY WANT THEIR MESSIAH TO BE. So, that is why God blinded them. Now, those Jews who recognize the error of that thinking, have come around, of course…they are Messianic Jews. Their numbers are growing…slowly.

Is Jesus’ second coming predicted in the OT? I think so, I think I remember reading it…but it is predicted, as the 2nd coming of the Messiah…(not Jesus)…so they don’t make this connection. Although, they should make the connection, because the old testament names the Messiah by NAME… I can’t remember if it was in Daniel or Osee that I read that the Messiah would be named Jesus… remind me to get back to you on that if you are interested. Once you start reading all of this and see just how many things the Jews are ignoring…or blinded to… it really strengthens your own faith. It is like the word of God is woven with the same message over and over and over…and it is intertwined all through the whole Bible, old and new. It is the perfect “mystery story”…all the hints are there… and when you find Jesus…well, of course, who else can He be but the Messiah? He fits all of the prophesy.

There are a great many people praying for and working for the conversion of the Jews… one of these days, God is going to remove those blinders…and they will see. Of course, I believe that this will only happen in the last days…if I recall my readings correctly.

Perhaps there are others who remember…
 
John92 said:
Where can I find an answer to these objections? Been looking, haven’t found much honestly.
Click to expand...
Ultimately, I don’t think that it’s ‘resolvable’ - it’s a kind of ‘you can’t get there from here’ problem.

The site you cited, for example, says ‘The theme of the Old Testament is the Coming One’ and that may be so, it’s not the theme of the Tanakh (our name for what you call the Old Testament), though and, in a sense, that says it all - it really does depend on where you start. Start with Jesus and it all seems to be about him, start with the Tanakh and it doesn’t.

To Christians, the Old Testament is full of signposts to Jesus. To us, Christians start with their religious texts (which we view as pious fictions in the way that Christians consider other religions’ texts as pious fictions) and search for anything that could vaguely (often with massive interpretation) refer to Jesus - like biting bits off jigsaw pieces to make the puzzle picture of Jesus fit.

We’ve been talking at one another for a couple of thousand years and we still don’t believe a word of it and you can often get very cross that we don’t because, from your point of view, of all people, of all religions we really ought to.
 
It’s good to remember that is was Jews that saw Jesus as the True Messiah in the first place. They were the first teachers of the Gentiles. So those Jews, who lived at the very time when the Prophesied Messiah was expected, saw Jesus as faithfully fulfilling all of the Messianic Scriptures. It was the Jews who convinced us, the Gentiles, that Jesus was truly THEIR Messiah, and OURS.

It is easy to see how those Jews that were afraid of upsetting the status quo resisted the message of the True Messiah. We see that over and over again in the New TEstament. But the opposing Jews never did present a convincing argument to either the Early Christian Jews, or the Early Christian Gentiles, even though they tried their darndest (usually through government force.)

So my answer to present day Jews would be, your argument is not with us Gentiles, but with the 2nd Temple Jews that saw Jesus as the fulfillment of the Messianic Scriptures. We are still convinced of their teachings, and still see nothing convincing in your own arguments.
 
Hyacinth_II said:
I’d first like to point out John 12:39-41 This explains why the Jews can’t understand. They have been literally blinded by God. This was a prophecy of Isaias. So, until God un-blinds thier eyes, they will not see. The Jews have set in their minds how “they see it” is going to happen. God is going to come and rise their earthly kingdom…this what they are looking for…and that Messiah did not come …so, in their eyes, the Messiah has not yet come. They do not believe Jesus when he said that His kingdom is not of this world…because, thats NOT WHAT THEY WANT THEIR MESSIAH TO BE. So, that is why God blinded them. Now, those Jews who recognize the error of that thinking, have come around, of course…they are Messianic Jews. Their numbers are growing…slowly.

Is Jesus’ second coming predicted in the OT? I think so, I think I remember reading it…but it is predicted, as the 2nd coming of the Messiah…(not Jesus)…so they don’t make this connection. Although, they should make the connection, because the old testament names the Messiah by NAME… I can’t remember if it was in Daniel or Osee that I read that the Messiah would be named Jesus… remind me to get back to you on that if you are interested. Once you start reading all of this and see just how many things the Jews are ignoring…or blinded to… it really strengthens your own faith. It is like the word of God is woven with the same message over and over and over…and it is intertwined all through the whole Bible, old and new. It is the perfect “mystery story”…all the hints are there… and when you find Jesus…well, of course, who else can He be but the Messiah? He fits all of the prophesy.

There are a great many people praying for and working for the conversion of the Jews… one of these days, God is going to remove those blinders…and they will see. Of course, I believe that this will only happen in the last days…if I recall my readings correctly.

Perhaps there are others who remember…
Click to expand...
Very interesting…
 
John92 said:
Update: I’ve solved some of these for myself. The Jews seem to interpret literally those passages we take to be figurative, and figuratively those passages we take to be literal 😛

Here are some “unfulfilled prophecies” that Jews claim prove Jesus to not be the true Messiah:

“And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)

I can think of two answers off the top of my head: 1.) He called all people, Jews and Gentile, Judah, Benjamin, the Lost Tribes, and us barbarians, into his Church, and 2.) Does this point towards the Book of Revelation? I’m very ignorant of that book but I do vaguely remember something about the Jews being taken back to Israel (or is that just a false Protestant interpretation?) Anyway, moving on…

“The temple must be rebuilt”

The temple is Christ. Christ is the temple. We worship God through Christ whereas the the Chosen People worshiped God through the Temple under the Law of Moses.

“…they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)

Isn’t this verse meant to be figurative? Christ taught us peace. Or could it rather be looking toward the Kingdom of God during the end-times or whatever? Again, I’m pretty ignorant of Catholic eschatology.

I don’t know, there’s some stuff to go on for now.

Some criticisms are to be found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_prophecy_in_Christianity#Unfilled_Prophecies

There’s a lot more further down the page dealing with specific Jewish criticisms.

Don’t forget my sig!

edit: Another question: Is the Second Coming predicted in the Old Testament? Because I think that would strengthen our position quite a bit.
Click to expand...
Dear John,

I would ask you to consider with all of your heart the long and arduous march of the Jewish people over the ages… from long before the arrival of J. of Nazereth to the present and see how that makes you think and feel. From the election of Abraham to the descent of the Hebrews into Egypt, their labors and sufferings there, the coming of Moses and the first redemption, etc… and also try to view things in historical order… from the beginning of Genesis onward.

Hope this message finds you well.

G-d bless,

Bryan
 
BryanS1976 said:
Dear John,

I would ask you to consider with all of your heart the long and arduous march of the Jewish people over the ages… from long before the arrival of J. of Nazereth to the present and see how that makes you think and feel. From the election of Abraham to the descent of the Hebrews into Egypt, their labors and sufferings there, the coming of Moses and the first redemption, etc… and also try to view things in historical order… from the beginning of Genesis onward.

Hope this message finds you well.

G-d bless,

Bryan
Click to expand...
Very true, the Jewish people have a long history. But ultimatly Jesus came and fulfilled the OT covenants, and set up a new covenant. I think this is what is at issue. I would also consider that the formation of current Jewish text, and theology changed around the time of Christs death. To help reject Christ as the savior. This says nothing of Jews today, who are a fine and proud people. But it does say their tradition, did many thousands of years ago, took at turn when faced with the prospect that the massiah had come, and all that it meant.
 
John7 said:
This set of books (four volumes) ‘Answering Jewish **Objections **to Jesus’ really helped me

amazon.com/Answering-Jewish-Objections-Jesus-vol/dp/0801064260/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249512074&sr=1-4#
(check out the table of contents)
Click to expand...
Yes - Michael Brown (the author) is probably the most well know and prolific messianic jew (Jewish believer in Christ) and apologist today. This multivolume set is spectacular. If you don’t want to spring for the set - you can get some general answers to the most common objections on his website www.realmessiah.org

While his theology/interpretation of scripture is evangelical (not catholic), on addressing Jewish objections to Jesus and in explaining historical Jewish understandings of the messiah in the Talmid and in other writings, he has no equal.

Blessings,

Brian (BTW - I am a Jewish believer and recent Catholic convert - so feel free to pm me with specific questions).
 
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