Rev 11:19 - 12:1

[JesusIsTheWay]

I hate to kick a dead hoarse, but…

This was said by another member:

As to Bible verses that refer to Mary’s assumption, someone already gave it to you, Rev 11:19 - 12:1. Catholics believe this is refering to Mary and her assumption.

Now I read this and it definately talks about a woman… But I read all of Chapter 11 and 12 and I see nothing about her going into Heaven…

12:6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

the goes into the desert…

12:14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring–those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

and she was given wings to go into the “place that was prepared for her in the desert”

All these places referred to about the woman are talking about earthly places but it never says she went into heaven…

I don’t find this a convincing verse shat shows Mary went to heaven… please help.

(edit: I noticed after post that i inadvertantly quoted the NIV version, however after looking at the KJV, it’s almost the same thing except that desert (NIV) is wilderness (kjv))

 

[John_Henry]

“Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.” (Rev. 12:1)

1. It says she’s in heaven.
2. Most people on earth don’t have such attire (whether it’s symbolic or not).

That may have been what your poster was referring to.

 

[JesusIsTheWay]

“Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.” (Rev. 12:1)

1. It says she’s in heaven.
2. Most people on earth don’t have such attire (whether it’s symbolic or not).

That may have been what your poster was referring to.

ok… that is where the woman originated… in heaven… not her destination…

OR

that is where the vision of this occurance occured but not the vision itself.

Either way it still does not explain or justify what happened to Mary… I still don’t see how this woman is identified as Mary… i would think that if this woman was that important then revelations (or the author) would have named her… unless of course the woman is a symbol in prophecy and therefore not a literal person…

 

[Archbishop_10-K]

ok… that is where the woman originated… in heaven… not her destination…

Remember that Revelation does not necessarily go in chronological order. At one point, it might be talking about the tribulation, in another the first coming of Christ. The description in 12:1 is talking about Mary’s current state, and then goes into a historical description of events.

i would think that if this woman was that important then revelations (or the author) would have named her… unless of course the woman is a symbol in prophecy and therefore not a literal person…

If you look at Revelation 19:11 and following, you’ll see it’s pretty obvious that the passage is talking about Jesus, BUT, the passage doesn’t say that the person is Jesus. That certainly doesn’t mean that the figure is not a literal person, but it goes to show the style of the writing (apocalyptic literature) rarely uses proper names. For example, “the beast” as opposed to “Ronald Reagan.”

 

[John_Henry]

JesusIsTheWay:

ok… that is where the woman originated… in heaven… not her destination…

OR

that is where the vision of this occurance occured but not the vision itself.

That’s what you say.

JesusIsTheWay:

Either way it still does not explain or justify what happened to Mary…

If it’s Mary in heaven, it certainly does provide a witness to her assumption.

JesusIsTheWay:

I still don’t see how this woman is identified as Mary…

“She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 12:5)

JesusIsTheWay:

i would think that if this woman was that important then revelations (or the author) would have named her…

Revelation hasn’t the habit of being the most clear of books.

JesusIsTheWay:

unless of course the woman is a symbol in prophecy and therefore not a literal person…

Either/or alert! It can be both (especially in this type of literature). There is a post somewhere where someone linked to a Q&A by Jimmy Akin explaining the different levels in the image of this woman. However, I cannot find it for the life of me. Sorry. Anyone else.

 

[JesusIsTheWay]

So this discussion will go 2 directions… You tell me I am supposed to prove that she isn’t… OR I tell you to prove that she is… (both of which i have never seen happen on any topic* either way… dead topic… thanks for the duscussion… bye

 

[Fidelis]

JesusIsTheWay:

So this discussion will go 2 directions… You tell me I am supposed to prove that she isn’t… OR I tell you to prove that she is… (both of which i have never seen happen on any topic* either way… dead topic… thanks for the duscussion… bye

Wow! Where did this come from? I didn’t see any thread in this forum that even remotely suggested “Prove that she hasn’t been assumed into heaven.” All I saw were people providing reasonable answers to your legitimate question.