Rev. 14, vs. 9-end

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Hi everyone. I am a cradle catholic who is reading the Bible. In my studies I read Rev. 14, starting with vs. 9. Does anyone know what the Church teaches about the “Mark of the Beast”? Is this something that we should all be on the look out for? I read somewhere about the “chip” that can be placed in your hand for identification. I only want authentic Catholic responses here. I know already the responses of other faith denominations. Thank you.

God Bless.
 
the mark of the beast refers to the emperor Nero who started the first organized Roman persecution of Christians. If you have a lot of time to waste, why not cruise the other hugely entertaining threads on this topic.
 
I read Scott Hahn’s “The Lamb’s Supper: The Mass as Heaven on Earth”, which is also a great read for this year of the Eucharist by the way.

He is of the theory, which is a common one, thsat the OT foreshadows/predicts the NT, and the NT foreshadows the future. So while Revelation can be associated with current events of the time like in this case, it also does foreshadow events of the future.

The association with Nero does not explain why “666” for example, unless I missed it - “6” is the number of incompleteness, contrasted to “7”, the number of completeness which is all over the Bible as we know. The point is that Satan never gets to completeness, which is why “the number is the beast”.

I may have misunderstood some of Hahn’s points on this subject, if anyone else read it please pitch in and clarify what he says!
 
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elgom:
Hi everyone. I am a cradle catholic who is reading the Bible. In my studies I read Rev. 14, starting with vs. 9. Does anyone know what the Church teaches about the “Mark of the Beast”? Is this something that we should all be on the look out for? I read somewhere about the “chip” that can be placed in your hand for identification. I only want authentic Catholic responses here. I know already the responses of other faith denominations. Thank you.

God Bless.
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The simple explanation is that the “mark of the beast” which people receive is, in fact, sin – but that’s a theological explanation. Revelation was actually written to discuss a real and on-going persecution. The 666 refers to Nero (numerology was a strong Judaic aspect of apocalyptic literature). That Nero committed suicide by stabbing himself in the neck is well documented, and this is why the beast has a neck wound.

The Mark of the Beast has nothing to do with chips, national id cards or any other such thing. The Mark of the Beast has to do with aligning onself with Satan in opposition to God.

Deacon Ed
 
The “Nero” interp for “the beast” is very popular among commentators. However, Revelation 13 refers to the mark of the beast as “the stamped image of the beast’s name or the number that stood for its name,” 666. However, I have read that to make the Latin or Greek or Aramaic or Hebrew forms of Nero’s name fit 666 by a rational formula, one must always somehow misspell “Nero.”

I.e., the “Nero” interp is not elegant, as they say, if that misspelling business is true.

There is a better way to analyze “the mark of the beast.”

In Scripture, the Devil is frequently characterized as imitating God, to make fun of Him. So, in Genesis 4, Christ characterizes “sin” as “a croucher at the door” or a “demon luking at the door.” Genesis 4:7. Why are “crouchers” located “at the door”? Probably to poke fun at the Prince of Ezekiel 46:2, which says that the Prince, Christ?, will stand beside the gate. Also, at Genesis 6:4, the “sons of God” – angels, but here, clearly, bad angels – see women, and kidnap and rape them, and beget “Nephilim.” Note that spiritual beings kidnapping and raping “Earth girls” and begetting “Nephilim” – Hebrew for “aborted ones” – pokes fun at the Incarnation and Nativity.

In this light, we ask, “Why would there be a ‘mark of the beast’?”

To make fun of the “taw” or “tau cross” to be marked on foreheads in Ezekiel 9:3-4.

Why 666?

666 is a typical number type. 10 = “very much” 3 = “will of God.” Dividing by 3 = “against the will of God.” 2 = “the Church.” In light of this, note how we would represent “very very very much against the will of God for His Church”…

10 x 10 x 10 = “very very very much”

-:- 3 = “against the will of God”

x 2 = “[for His] Church.”

10 x 10 x 10 -:- 2 x 3 = 666.66666 ad infinitum.

Coincidence? I doubt it.

So, whatever the “mark of the beast” is, 666 will somehow stand for it.

I’ve got an idea. Before John of Patmos wrote Revelation, Pythagoras wrote a paper about 666, stating that the natural numbers 1 through 36, which add up to 666, can be arranged in the shape of an 8-8-8 equilateral triangle.

Thus, an equilateral triangle would stand for 666, and would therefore make a good “mark of the beast.”

Lo and behold, in Whitley Strieber’s book on the Abduction Phenomenon, Communion, he reports how many beings in the Abduction Phenomenon are marked with triangles!
 
The use of the word “mark” occurs often in the Bible, adn does not always refer to something phyiscal, more that God has his eye on some one for a reason, favorable or otherwise.

The mark on the head, refers to where loyalty of the beholder lays. Is it to God or to materialism in some way, or to a leder who contradicts God’s teachings.

The mark on the hand refers to how the individual carries out his dees, with intentions to honor God and to fulfill his will or earth, or because of selfish interests.

I highly recommend David Currie’s book on the Rapture. Sorry to do it again in this thread (This topic was looesly mentioned on the armageddon thread in this forum). It gave me so mcuh enlightement not only in regards ot apocalyptic references in the Bible (his chapter on Revelation is the longest), but is regards to symbols as a whole, which you have a very good background in, probably much beter than mine, but if you want to explore those as they are presented in Revelation it is the place to visit.

He writes from a Catholic perspective, but he is a graduate of the Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and spent a few years as a Proetestant missionary teaching about Revelation. He claims that his studies of the Bible led him to embrace Catholicism. as such his anlaysis is catholic, but he does not discount elements of trth he found in biblical studies elsewhere. He covers different approaches, and pulls heavily from the writings of early church fathers and the Roman and Jewish historians that lived in Jesus’ generation.
 
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BibleReader:
10 x 10 x 10 = “very very very much”

-:- 3 = “against the will of God”

x 2 = “[for His] Church.”

10 x 10 x 10 -:- 2 x 3 = 666.66666 ad infinitum.

Coincidence? I doubt it.
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:hmmm: Thanks Bible Reader for that insight!
 
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BibleReader:
The “Nero” interp for “the beast” is very popular among commentators. However, Revelation 13 refers to the mark of the beast as “the stamped image of the beast’s name or the number that stood for its name,” 666. However, I have read that to make the Latin or Greek or Aramaic or Hebrew forms of Nero’s name fit 666 by a rational formula, one must always somehow misspell “Nero.”

I.e., the “Nero” interp is not elegant, as they say, if that misspelling business is true.

There is a better way to analyze “the mark of the beast.”

In Scripture, the Devil is frequently characterized as imitating God, to make fun of Him. So, in Genesis 4, Christ characterizes “sin” as “a croucher at the door” or a “demon luking at the door.” Genesis 4:7. Why are “crouchers” located “at the door”? Probably to poke fun at the Prince of Ezekiel 46:2, which says that the Prince, Christ?, will stand beside the gate. Also, at Genesis 6:4, the “sons of God” – angels, but here, clearly, bad angels – see women, and kidnap and rape them, and beget “Nephilim.” Note that spiritual beings kidnapping and raping “Earth girls” and begetting “Nephilim” – Hebrew for “aborted ones” – pokes fun at the Incarnation and Nativity.

In this light, we ask, “Why would there be a ‘mark of the beast’?”

To make fun of the “taw” or “tau cross” to be marked on foreheads in Ezekiel 9:3-4.

Why 666?

666 is a typical number type. 10 = “very much” 3 = “will of God.” Dividing by 3 = “against the will of God.” 2 = “the Church.” In light of this, note how we would represent “very very very much against the will of God for His Church”…

10 x 10 x 10 = “very very very much”

-:- 3 = “against the will of God”

x 2 = “[for His] Church.”

10 x 10 x 10 -:- 2 x 3 = 666.66666 ad infinitum.

Coincidence? I doubt it.

So, whatever the “mark of the beast” is, 666 will somehow stand for it.

I’ve got an idea. Before John of Patmos wrote Revelation, Pythagoras wrote a paper about 666, stating that the natural numbers 1 through 36, which add up to 666, can be arranged in the shape of an 8-8-8 equilateral triangle.

Thus, an equilateral triangle would stand for 666, and would therefore make a good “mark of the beast.”

Lo and behold, in Whitley Strieber’s book on the Abduction Phenomenon, Communion, he reports how many beings in the Abduction Phenomenon are marked with triangles!
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The only problem with this interpretation is that it doesn’t account for the number being reported as 616 in some early manuscripts. The Nero hypothesis actually does account for this discrepancy quite elegantly, actually.

The Greek rendition of Nero, Neron Ceasar would be transliterated into Hebrew as NRWN QSR, which does add up to 666.

The Latin is, of course, Nero Caesar. The transliteration is NRW QSR. Taking the fact that the value of N = 50, this rendition adds to 616.

Thus the Nero hypothesis takes into account both the 666 and the 616 found in the original language manuscripts. Until a rival theory can satisfactorily account for both 666 and 616, I’m inclined to favor the Nero hypothesis.
 
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mtr01:
The only problem with this interpretation is that it doesn’t account for the number being reported as 616 in some early manuscripts. The Nero hypothesis actually does account for this discrepancy quite elegantly, actually.
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I believe it was Neros as well, but find meaning too in the fact that 666 is the transcritpiton that predominantly was propagated, and it has meaning in addition to Nero.
 
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mtr01:
The only problem with this interpretation is that it doesn’t account for the number being reported as 616 in some early manuscripts. The Nero hypothesis actually does account for this discrepancy quite elegantly, actually.

The Greek rendition of Nero, Neron Ceasar would be transliterated into Hebrew as NRWN QSR, which does add up to 666.

The Latin is, of course, Nero Caesar. The transliteration is NRW QSR. Taking the fact that the value of N = 50, this rendition adds to 616.

Thus the Nero hypothesis takes into account both the 666 and the 616 found in the original language manuscripts. Until a rival theory can satisfactorily account for both 666 and 616, I’m inclined to favor the Nero hypothesis.
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Please provide a chart detailing your gematria total. Are you totaling English letters in a transliteration???
 
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BibleReader:
Please provide a chart detailing your gematria total. Are you totaling English letters in a transliteration???
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My logic was this: Transliterations are as variable as the wind. Have you ever seen how many transliterations there are for Moamar Kadhafi of Libya?

In other words, just by playing around with the transliteration, one can find a spelling which is associated with gematria numbers which add up to 666.

In the explanation I saw, uncommon transliterations of Nero in each of the ancient languages in which it was written had to be employed to fit 666.

In other words, it’s about the same level as that ridiculous Bill Gates / 666 joke…

**The real name of the Bill Gates is William Henry Gates III. Nowadays he is known as Bill Gates (III), where “III” means the order of third (3rd). By converting the letters of his name to the ASCII-values (which are used in computers) you will get the following: **

B I L L G A T E S 3 =
66 + 73 + 76 + 76 + 71 + 65 + 84 + 69 + 83 + 3 = 666
 
I have seen some very good answers in response to your question and I concur with the others that the intention of the author of the Book of Revelation was to point to Nero.

Also, Deacon Ed :bowdown: has given a very good understanding of what is meant by the mark of the beast. I agree that it can be seen as sin and think that this is the best explanation of what the author means.

You mentioned the nonsense about the computer chip being inserted into the wrist. My advice to you on that score is to forget about it because the source of information is not reliable in the first place. You will find that kind of thing on extremist fundamentalist websites.

Maggie
 
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BibleReader:
My logic was this: Transliterations are as variable as the wind. Have you ever seen how many transliterations there are for Moamar Kadhafi of Libya?

In other words, just by playing around with the transliteration, one can find a spelling which is associated with gematria numbers which add up to 666.

In the explanation I saw, uncommon transliterations of Nero in each of the ancient languages in which it was written had to be employed to fit 666.

In other words, it’s about the same level as that ridiculous Bill Gates / 666 joke…

**The real name of the Bill Gates is William Henry Gates III. Nowadays he is known as Bill Gates (III), where “III” means the order of third (3rd). By converting the letters of his name to the ASCII-values (which are used in computers) you will get the following: **

B I L L G A T E S 3 =
66 + 73 + 76 + 76 + 71 + 65 + 84 + 69 + 83 + 3 = 666
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The same thing can be done for Ellen Gould White (SDA) as well as the World Wide Web.

There are a lot of variations on a theme and none of them are correct. They are looking for something now, when the real meaning is concerned with the times in which the author lived.

Maggie
 
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BibleReader:
Please provide a chart detailing your gematria total. Are you totaling English letters in a transliteration???
Click to expand...
The numerical values of the Hebrew letters in Neron Kesar (Nero Caesar) are:


I actually made a mistake before, the transliteration would be Neron Kesar (666) and Nero Kesar (616). In Hebrew, it would be NRWN QSR and NRW QSR, respectively, where (in English letters):

N = 50 R = 200 W = 6 N = 50 Q = 100 S = 60 R = 200

These values are taken from the absolute value of each letter in the Hebrew Gematria. The chart can be found here.

As for the possibility that this is a “forced” transliteration of Nero’s name, you can check out this site, where I also found the Hebrew letters above.
 
Wow! All of your answers are great! Thank you so much, an answer to my prayers! God Bless!
 
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