Rev. Chpt 4: Who is sitting on the Throne?

[Thorwald]

In Acts, God (Our Father) states that Jesus was made both Lord (Lord of Hosts) & Christ (Son of Man) (one figure). In Rev. chpt 5, The Lamb (Jesus) takes the book out of the hand of He who sits on the throne. WHO IS ON THE THRONE?

 

[ryanoneil]

This gets into the mystery of the Holy Trinity. It is God the Father.

 

[Thorwald]

This gets into the mystery of the Holy Trinity. It is God the Father.

If this figure is God the Father (which I agree with), and Rev. chpt 4 says that this figure is the creator, then how does John chpt 1 fit in (He was in the world, and the world was made by HIm, and the world knew Him not.)? Further in the NT scriptures, we find that “The Son” created everything, and for His pleasure, all things were created. The Son has to reconcile all of His creation, before He submits Himself and His Kingdom, unto The Father. We then have to tie in Isaiah 44:6 (and Isaiah chpt 43). It is not making sense to me.

 

[ralphinal]

If this figure is God the Father (which I agree with), and Rev. chpt 4 says that this figure is the creator, then how does John chpt 1 fit in (He was in the world, and the world was made by HIm, and the world knew Him not.)? Further in the NT scriptures, we find that “The Son” created everything, and for His pleasure, all things were created. The Son has to reconcile all of His creation, before He submits Himself and His Kingdom, unto The Father. We then have to tie in Isaiah 44:6 (and Isaiah chpt 43). It is not making sense to me.

I would say that John 1 ties into Genesis, when we see the Spirit of God move over the waters. The Father, through the Son, ordered the Spirit to move. The Father then sends the Son into the World, that through him the world might be saved (and judged).

 

[ryanoneil]

It certainly is a mystery. Jesus has always been the word of God but wasn’t “made flesh” until his incarnation. And if you notice John says the He was with God and was God. They are distinct persons in one God. So the universe was created by God through the Word, and was renewed through that same Word come in the flesh as Jesus Christ. The Catechism (1042-1050) talks about Jesus triump over his enemies and transfering his kingdom over to the Father.

 

[Thorwald]

I would say that John 1 ties into Genesis, when we see the Spirit of God move over the waters. The Father, through the Son, ordered the Spirit to move. The Father then sends the Son into the World, that through him the world might be saved (and judged).

Thank you for your response. I realize that this is a very difficult topic. There are even more confusing items. Some of these, are as follows;

1. There is no mention of The Holy Ghost, in Isaiah 44:6.
2. Rev. 1:6, is somewhat strange, in the way it is written.
3. We find in the N/T (ie. John), that it is written, that no man has ever seen The Father at any time, and we also are told, that no man has ever seen God. If John witnessed God The Father on His throne in Rev. chpt 4, and Jesus (as the lamb) in chpt 5, and several places mention that Jesus was seen sitting on the right hand of God (I would assume that both would have had to be seen for this to take place), then we have a contradiction.
4. Jesus states that, “The word which ye hear, is not mine, but The Father’s which sent me.” Does that mean, that His Father is also ‘The Word’?

It almost appears, when we put the different scriptures together, that even the apostles did not fully understand the Trinity and The Godhead. It appears, that The Trinty (The Father, The Son (The Word) and The Holy Ghost), is the main ‘original structure’, and when The Son created all of creation, He first created His Redeemer (His Son…The Lord of Hosts), knowing that there was going to be a need for salvation (sin of satan…from the angels, and sin of all of mankind…from Adam & Eve). Just a thought???

Further to the above;

In Rev, we see Christ as being referred to as, ‘the beginning of the creation of God’. Could this mean, that ‘The Son’ plus ‘His Son’ had to have a combined-unit name, that The Son called ‘God’?