Revelation Scripture...

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Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
 
Revelation has always been my favorite book of the Bible. Even in my agnostic days. What is your point/concern/reason for posting these particular passages?

God bless
 
Roman_Catholic said:
Revelation has always been my favorite book of the Bible. Even in my agnostic days. What is your point/concern/reason for posting these particular passages?

God bless
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Honestly, I was doing some reading and I felt the need to post this. I don’t know why.
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
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What comes to me is this is apocalyptic material. Apocalyptic writing was common in the 2nd BC- 100ad. Highly figurative-highly debatable as what those images mean- not to be taken literal . Numbers highly symbolic. Suggest you read “the Rapture Trap” Apocalypse: Definitions and Related Terms
by Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D.
Preliminary Description of “Apocalypse”:
In popular terminology today, an “apocalypse” is a catastrophic event (e.g., nuclear holocaust).
In biblical terminology, an “apocalypse” is not an event, but a “revelation” that is recorded in written form:
it is a piece of crisis literature that “reveals” truths about the past, present, and/or future in highly symbolic terms;
the revelation often comes in dreams or visions, and usually needs to be interpreted with the help of an angel;
it is usually intended to provide hope and encouragement for people in the midst of severe trials and tribulations.
Caution 1: “The Apocalypse” is an alternate name (used especially by Protestants) for the “Book of Revelation” in the NT.
Caution 2: “The Little Apocalypse” or “The Apocalyptic Discourse” are names sometimes given to Mark 13 (and parallel passages in Matt 24 and Luke 21), containing the teachings of Jesus about the future of Jerusalem and the end of the world.
Scholarly Definition of “Apocalypse”(from the SBL’s “Apocalypse Group”; published in J. J. Collins, Semeia 14 [1979] 9):
" ‘Apocalypse’ is a genre of revelatory literature with a narrative framework,
in which a revelation is mediated by an otherworldly being to a human recipient,
disclosing a transcendent reality which is
both temporal, insofar as it envisages eschatological salvation,
and spatial insofar as it involves another, supernatural world."
Addition to the Definition, incorporating the purpose of the genre, from the suggestions of Hellholm (1982) & Aune (1986):
“.intended to interpret the present, earthly circumstances in light of the supernatural world and of the future,
and to influence both the understanding and the behavior of the audience by means of divine authority.”
Subdivisions or Types of Apocalypses:
Apocalypses can be classified according to features in their CONTENT:
Some apocalypses contain “Otherworldly Journeys” (e.g., the seer is purportedly taken on a tour of heaven)
Others do not contain “Otherworldly Journeys” (e.g., while seeing heavenly things, the seer stays on earth)
Apocalypses can also be classified according to their primary REFERENTS:
Some apocalypses deal with Personal Eschatology (the death and after-life of individuals)
Others focus more on Ethnic or National Eschatology (the end of a nation or empire)
Many others contain Cosmic Eschatology (the ultimate end of the whole world)
 
Related Terminology:
Apocalyptic (adj.) - originally referred to anything “revelatory”; now usually refers to catastrophic violence or disasters.
Apocalypticism - a world view with strong apocalyptic expectations; social movements that expect the end of the world.
Eschatology / Eschatological - any teaching about the “end” times and/or the future world beyond the end of normal time (see my page on Jesus’ Eschatological Discourse)
Prophecy / Prophetic - not really “foretelling the future,” as if the prophet were “looking into a crystal ball”; rather, a prophet “speaks and acts on behalf of God,” conveying God’s message to the people; the words could be about past, present or future truths; the actions could be “symbolic” or “miraculous” (see also my new extensive page on Biblical Prophecy)
Revelation - an “uncovering” of something which has always been true, but previously hidden or unknown to humans.
Day of the Lord / Judgment Day - a cosmic event expected in the future, but the specific expectations vary.
Parousia - the “coming” or “arrival” of any important figure, esp. of Jesus at the end of time, in early Christian expectations.
Rapture - a fairly new term for the expectation that faithful Christians will be taken off the earth to live with Jesus, while all other people are not; based on an overly literal misinterpretation of 1Thess 4:15-17.
Tribulation - in fundamentalist expectations, a 7-year period of great suffering and turmoil before the Second Coming of Christ; but exactly when the rapture is to occur in relation to the tribulation is disputed among such believers:
Pre-Tribulation Rapture - non-believers have to endure the 7-year tribulation, but believers are raptured first;
Mid-Tribulation Rapture - believers must endure 3½ years of tribulation before they are raptured;
Post-Tribulation Rapture - believers must endure the entire 7-year tribulation before they are raptured.
Dispensationalism - the belief that world history is divided into a certain number of eras or “dispensations,” which usually also implies the belief that one is living in the last (or next-to-last) dispensation before the end of the world and/or the beginning of God’s Kingdom.
Armageddon / Harmagedon - the place (Megiddo) where the final battle is to occur, according to Rev 16:16.
Millennium - any one-thousand year period; or more specifically, the thousand year period of peace described in Rev 20:1-6.
Millennialist / -ism - religious groups that expect Rev 20 to occur literally, and often try to calculate exact times.
Millenarian / -ianism - religious or secular groups that look forward to or prepare for the end of the world
Premillennialism / Premillenariaism - belief that the 1000-year reign of peace will come only after the great tribulation and the return of Jesus, so one must be prepared to endure the worst; also called “Catastrophic Millennialism.”
Postmillennialism / Postmillenariaism - belief that the 1000-year reign of peace must be established on earth by human beings and societies, and that Jesus will return only at the end of that time; also called “Progressive Millennialism.”
Cautions:
Not every Apocalypse is purely eschatological (they may also interpret past or present events, not just the future).
Not all Eschatology is apocalyptic (some look forward to a future that is peaceful, not violent). “Millennium” has two N’s (from Latin mille = 1000 and annus = year), while “Millenarian” has only one (simply mille plus a nominal ending)
“Millenium” (with one N) is not proper English spelling, but a very common misspelling (if it did exist, it would mean “1000” + “anus”!)
 
For nearly 2000 years, believers have spent considerable energy trying to identify potential Antichrists in their midst using scripture, particularly Revelation, as their guide.

Using the Antichrist characteristics described above, test your knowledge. In the following list, who have been labeled as an arch-deceiver and false messiah of the Last Days?

Don Francisco Nero Caesar

Yasser Arafat Regis Philbin

“The Beast” Pope John Paul II

Jimmy Carter Bob Dylan

Bill Gates Ronald Reagan

Billy Graham Pat Robertson

Mikhail Gorbachev Donald Trump

John F. Kennedy David Rockefeller

Michael Eisner Theodore Roosevelt

Henry Kissinger Anwar el-Sadat

Bill Clinton Larry Flynt

Martin Luther Saddam Hussein

Benito Mussolini

Answer next post
 
Yasser Arafat Middle East leader has been seen as a potential broker of “false peace”

“The Beast” The nickname of the supercomputer at European Union headquarters in Brussels.
[The movement toward European unity – symbolized by the formation of NATO and the European Union – has long been viewed as a fulfillment of biblical prophecy, which sees in it the re-emergence of the evil Roman Empire in John’s Revelation. Thus prophecy writer Lu Ann Bransby and others were excited to report the affectionate nickname Common Market employees had given their central computer.]

Jimmy Carter Born-again Christian world leader with ties to the Trilateral Commission
[See Rockefeller for more on the Trilateral Commission. Hal Lindsey, in his book The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon, argued that the Trilateralists had brainwashed Carter and then used their money and media connections to get him into the White House.]

Bill Gates Gates is arguably the most famous symbol of computer technology. Apocalyptic preacher Jack Van Impe voiced the traditional suspicion of computers when he wrote in 1983 that “Antichrist will enslave and control earth’s billions through a sophisticated computer fashioned in his likeness.”

Mikhail Gorbachev Peacemaker with a birthmark on his head
[Besides the suspicious mark on his head, Paul Boyer notes that Gorbachev excited prophecy writers who “quoted scriptures suggesting that Antichrist will not initially be a blatantly evil figure, but instead a warm, charismatic leader promising peace.” And as Robert Faid, author of Gorbachev! Has the Real Antichrist Come?, pointed out, the numerical equivalent of "Mikhail S. Gorbachev in Russian is 1,332 – 666 times 2.]

John F. Kennedy He received 666 votes at the 1956 Democratic Convention, and later died of a head wound; A head wound is significant to those looking to determine who is the beast or Antichrist because of the description of the beast from the sea in Revelation 13:1-3.“And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads… One of its heads seemed to have received a death blow, but its mortal wound has been healed.” This has traditionally been interpreted as a reference to the Roman emperor Nero, whom legend had it had died (death blow) but might return from the dead (healed wound). Thus, prophecy believers could use, for example, JFK’s head wound as evidence that he was, in fact, the beast.

Henry Kissinger Middle East peacemaker of Jewish ancestry, whose name in Hebrew adds up to 111 (666 divided by 6!)

Martin Luther Traded antichrist taunts with the Pope after launching the Protestant Reformation

Benito Mussolini 20th century fascist who would rule an empire from Rome

Nero Caesar Biblical scholars believe he was the “beast” named in the book of Revelation
[As Robert Fuller writes, John was writing Revelation for persecuted Christians who “could hardly fail to make immediate connections between the imagery surrounding this beast and their feared worldly enemies: Rome, and the despised Roman emperor and merciless persecutor of Christians, Nero.” Most scholars believe that “666,” the sum of the numerical values of the Greek “Neron Kaisar” translated into Hebrew, is code for Nero.]
 
Pope John Paul II Over the centuries, popes frequently have been suspected as being Antichrists; in addition, John Paul II received a serious gunshot wound
A wound, especially a head wound, is significant to those looking to determine who is the beast or Antichrist because of the description of the beast from the sea in Revelation 13:1-3.“And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads… One of its heads seemed to have received a death blow, but its mortal wound has been healed.” This has traditionally been interpreted as a reference to the Roman emperor Nero, whom legend had it had died (death blow) but might return from the dead (healed wound). Thus, prophecy believers could use, for example, JFK’s head wound as evidence that he was, in fact, the beast.

Ronald Wilson Reagan Each of his names has 6 letters, and he recovered from a near-fatal shooting
A wound, especially a head wound, is significant to those looking to determine who is the beast or Antichrist because of the description of the beast from the sea in Revelation 13:1-3.“And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads… One of its heads seemed to have received a death blow, but its mortal wound has been healed.” This has traditionally been interpreted as a reference to the Roman emperor Nero, whom legend had it had died (death blow) but might return from the dead (healed wound). Thus, prophecy believers could use, for example, JFK’s head wound as evidence that he was, in fact, the beast.

Pat Robertson Is he an antichrist identifier or antichrist? His entry into politics has led some believers to wonder.
In 1980, Robertson publicly declared that “there is a man alive today, approximately 27 years old, who is now being groomed to be the Satanic messiah.” But as Daniel Wojcik says in his book The End of the World As We Know It, “Robertson himself was accused of being a potential candidate for the Antichrist by some premillennial dispensationalists when he broke with conventional premillennialist views in declaring that the coming New World Order, the rise of the Antichrist, and the apocalypse could be averted if Christian America rallied to prevent a one-world government.”

David Rockefeller Co-founder of the Trilateral Commission, which sought to strengthen ties among elites of different nations in the 1970s
Paul Boyer writes, “The Trilateral Commission fit the prophecy writers’ conspiratorial outlook perfectly – here was the sanctum sanctorum of the shadowy network of groups seeking global control; a key tool (as Hal Lindsey put it) of ‘the western world’s most powerful bankers, media leaders, scholars, and government officials bent on radically changing the world in which we live.’”

Anwar el-Sadat Middle East peacemaker and a favorite Antichrist figure before his assassination

Saddam Hussein Gulf War instigator and the latest in a long line of Middle East bad guys

Some other well known figures who have been labelled the antichrist in their time:

Willy Brandt
Caligula
King Juan Carlos of Spain
Emperor Frederick II of Germany
King George II of England
Emperor Justinian
Ayatollah Khomeini
Nikita Khrushchev
Sun Myung Moon
Napoleon Bonaparte
Czar Peter the Great
Pete Seeger
Josef Stalin
Kaiser Wilhelm
Boris Yeltsin
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Click to expand...
Nero, not the pope
Truth_Seeker123 said:
Revelation 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Click to expand...
Jerusalem, not mary
 
See I know where you are going and that your patronizing the board. I also know what you think those verses mean, you are crafty but not cunning enough. Your transparent bias Catholicism is showing from all your post I have now read.

Your a good actor, acting the innocent but it doesn’t wash. You want those verses to mean the Pope and Mary, it as plain as the nose on your face. The days I was away from the Catholic Church I was obvious in my put downs, you try to be subtle but your still condemning the Catholic Church.

Don’t pretend your innocent and just posting verses and pretend to be all put out, your real motives are crystal clear.

Now if you really want to know what I am referring to it’s called Preterism. I believe Revelation is about the past not the future, it was a code for the Christian living during that time. Here is where you can gain some more knowledge about it

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism#Partial_Preterism
 
historyb said:
See I know where you are going and that your patronizing the board. I also know what you think those verses mean, you are crafty but not cunning enough. Your transparent bias Catholicism is showing from all your post I have now read.

Your a good actor, acting the innocent but it doesn’t wash. You want those verses to mean the Pope and Mary, it as plain as the nose on your face. The days I was away from the Catholic Church I was obvious in my put downs, you try to be subtle but your still condemning the Catholic Church.

Don’t pretend your innocent and just posting verses and pretend to be all put out, your real motives are crystal clear.

Now if you really want to know what I am referring to it’s called Preterism. I believe Revelation is about the past not the future, it was a code for the Christian living during that time. Here is where you can gain some more knowledge about it

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism#Partial_Preterism
Click to expand...
Oh wow…

You couldn’t be more wrong about me. Do some of you actually think that all protestants think alike?
 
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