RICA & potential convert

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Bonnie

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I’ve been teaching in the RCIA program for several years now & am having some difficulty with a potential convert.

This lady - I’ll call her Alice - started RCIA last fall but kept complaining that she couldn’t get up early enough to come to the classes. They are after the 9 am mass, at 10:30. She had lots of questions & was sort of disruptive. She wanted us to change to evening classes even though it would be a problem for everyone else. She dropped out after about a month & we didn’t hear from her.

Then she showed up at the Mother’s day lunch yesterday & bent my ear for over an hour. (My dh was washing the dishes so I was stuck. 😦 ) She wants to return to RCIA in the fall, & in the meantime says she will attend mass, but not receive communion - we had a hard time convincing her last fall not to receive.

These are some of the things about her that bother me. She is:
extremely self centered
talks & doesn’t listen
is critical of almost everybody
emotionally needy
gets herself into problems & wants people to feel sorry for her
steals (this has been confirmed by others)
feels entitled - example - takes ALL the leftover goodies after RCIA & helped herself to the bags of food donated to St. Vincent de Paul

And that’s the short list! She is really, really annoying. :whacky:

She is also sure she is a Christian & is validly baptized, but she told me yesterday that she was baptized at the Shepherd’s Chapel in Arkansas, by Arnold Murray. I looked him up & he’s a non-Trinitarian, racist, 7th day nut.

SO - my question is (besides how do I attract these people!) how do we - especially me - handle her if she comes back? None of us teaching RCIA are shrinks or counselors. I find myself totally repulsed by her.

Any advice is deeply appreciated!
 
Bonnie

Having taught RCIA myself, the best answer I can give is this…
That’s why the pastor gets the big money.

From everything you’ve said, you need to pass this one up the chain of command. The lady’s dishonesty and evasiveness needs to be addressed by someone with more ecclesiastical authority than you. You can’t make the decision on this one. Sure she can come back to RCIA and may end up a faithful Catholic, but I don’t think one can become Catholic under false pretenses. (referring to the validity of her ‘baptism’). You have a responsibility to the entire faith community in addition to any one single candidate. After all, we are a community of faith … and truth.

Remember though, Jesus embraced and cured lepers, the blind, the lame, and from my reading, a bunch of people who didn’t smell too good either 🙂 Hang in there…

Shalom.
 
Bonnie said:
I’ve been teaching in the RCIA program for several years now & am having some difficulty with a potential convert.

This lady - I’ll call her Alice - started RCIA last fall but kept complaining that she couldn’t get up early enough to come to the classes. They are after the 9 am mass, at 10:30. She had lots of questions & was sort of disruptive. She wanted us to change to evening classes even though it would be a problem for everyone else. She dropped out after about a month & we didn’t hear from her.

Then she showed up at the Mother’s day lunch yesterday & bent my ear for over an hour. (My dh was washing the dishes so I was stuck. 😦 ) She wants to return to RCIA in the fall, & in the meantime says she will attend mass, but not receive communion - we had a hard time convincing her last fall not to receive.

These are some of the things about her that bother me. She is:
extremely self centered
talks & doesn’t listen
is critical of almost everybody
emotionally needy
gets herself into problems & wants people to feel sorry for her
steals (this has been confirmed by others)
feels entitled - example - takes ALL the leftover goodies after RCIA & helped herself to the bags of food donated to St. Vincent de Paul

And that’s the short list! She is really, really annoying. :whacky:

She is also sure she is a Christian & is validly baptized, but she told me yesterday that she was baptized at the Shepherd’s Chapel in Arkansas, by Arnold Murray. I looked him up & he’s a non-Trinitarian, racist, 7th day nut.

SO - my question is (besides how do I attract these people!) how do we - especially me - handle her if she comes back? None of us teaching RCIA are shrinks or counselors. I find myself totally repulsed by her.

Any advice is deeply appreciated!
Click to expand...
St. Francis once met a leper on the road outside of town what did he do?

I would either send her to see the Pastor or DRE, or have two team members sit down with her in an interview and explain what is expected and what will and what will not be tolerated. Also speak with the pastor about her Baptism and if he agrees, explain to her that it is not accepted as a valid Baptism.

I have a sign above my desk that says:

God said that I would have to work with difficult people, bet He didn’t say that there would be this many!
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
St. Francis once met a leper on the road outside of town what did he do?
Click to expand...
I’m not St. Francis & Alice is not a leper - she’s an emotional leech. So I should let her take over my life & if she lasts long enough, the RCIA program? Don’t think so.

I’ll take Joey’s advice & turn her over to our priest. He’s a good guy & I hate to do it, but he DOES get paid - I don’t! 😃
 
Bonnie said:
I’m not St. Francis & Alice is not a leper - she’s an emotional leech. So I should let her take over my life & if she lasts long enough, the RCIA program? Don’t think so.

I’ll take Joey’s advice & turn her over to our priest. He’s a good guy & I hate to do it, but he DOES get paid - I don’t! 😃
Click to expand...
We should welcome everyone, but there are boundries and limits.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
We should welcome everyone, but there are boundries and limits.
Click to expand...
Believe me, she’s been welcomed. The only things we were firm about were instructing her to NOT receive communion, & refusing to change the time of the meetings to please her.

Since she’s not the sort to pick up subtle hints - or even not so subtle - I’m sure she’s not aware that when she talks to me for more than 15 minutes I’m pleading with God, “Rescue me!” 😉

I promise I’ll try not to say it out loud. :eek:
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
St. Francis once met a leper on the road outside of town what did he do?

I would either send her to see the Pastor or DRE, or have two team members sit down with her in an interview and explain what is expected and what will and what will not be tolerated. Also speak with the pastor about her Baptism and if he agrees, explain to her that it is not accepted as a valid Baptism.

I have a sign above my desk that says:

God said that I would have to work with difficult people, bet He didn’t say that there would be this many!
Click to expand...
So that no one thinks I’m a jerk who doesn’t take good advice, Br Rich had posted only the first sentence, to which I replied. He added the rest after or during the writing of my reply. 😦
 
Bonnie said:
SO - my question is (besides how do I attract these people!) how do we - especially me - handle her if she comes back?

Any advice is deeply appreciated!
Click to expand...
Recognize two things which will help you change your perspective and your heart:
  1. You don’t attract “these” people, God sends them to you because He has a job for you to do.
  2. Trust in the Holy Spirit as you open yourself to His graces which will allow Him to work **through **you to bring this woman through her conversion to God.
You are merely an instrument, Bonnie, just as the rest of us.

I find that the annoyance factor increases the more I look at things from my own personal perspective rather than God’s. Do you know what helped me change? Going to confession for being irritated with a co-worker which really rubbed me the wrong way.

I used to just confess my poor attitude during mass before the confetior but then I noticed I kept having to recall those instances every Sunday so nothing was changing (getting better). I then took it to personal confession and just told the priest I’m tired of having to apologize week after week to God for my attitude. He gave some advice and sent me on my way.

Sure enough, later in the week when I found myself irritated again, I paused to ask myself if the behavior which irritated me was new or the same? It was the same and that helped me realize it wasn’t going to go away, and I was able to dismiss it! I credit God’s grace from the confessional, but honestly, that particular behavior hasn’t annoyed me since. I did have to go back to the confessional for some of the other behaviors I was reacting negatively to, but the priest helped me with those too and now I’m just not bothered. Where I used to grumble under my breath, I say a prayer for her and for me and that lets me get on with my day with a smile.
 
Praying for you and for Alice

I think it was well put that these folks are sent to you !
You have an important mission. I also am aware that you can get burnt out!

I am believing that your priest will be able to help you with this situation!

Good Luck:thumbsup:
 
What a challenge! She sounds like she has a mental illness. What do you think? Maybe she is really low income and doesn’t have a job, and this is why she is taking the food? Sounds like she needs more help than just RCIA.
 
I would ask the priest to sit in a meeting between the two of you.

Alice probably will be on her best behavior but maybe she will learn that this is RCIA and not every topic/ssue is welcome and there is a time and a place for everything. Open discussion of the topic is welcome, personal issues are not.

Another reason the priest should be involved is do a minor diagnosis if this person should even be in RCIA at this point and time. Maybe she has mental issues that would in fact impede her from understanding the gospel. Maybe he can give her an outside assignment to determine her ability to continue.

Further I would remind her that there is x amount of time for y people and not to monopolize your and the group’s time.

I was blessed. Our RCIA was led by our priests. The senior priest is bishop material in his ability to teach. He had cool stories, especially about the exorcism he performed. Hey, that’s the answer get Alice exorcised. 😛
 
You guys are funny!

Our RCIA was led by our priest too… he is wonderful!
I agree that she might have a mental illness or need more than RCIA.

You are in my prayers…
 
did not respond right away, need to think about it

#1, it may be that you are there for her, she is the one you are meant to reach at this time

#2 it may be she is given to you to deal with for your own purification

#3 it may be that you should refer her to the pastor for a determination on the validity of her baptism (or whatever other issues there may be that make you question the sincerity of her converstion) and put the responsibility on her to make that appointment, and welcome her to come back to the class if and when the pastor tells you she is ready.

I still think #3 is the option when a lay director or RCIA catechist has questions about any aspect of an individuals reception into the church, I just don’t think the lay person can make these pastoral assessments, although they may of couse give feedback to the pastor.

in any case, remove your personal opinions or reaction to her personality out of the equation

a PP’s advice to interview her with another person is sound. with a person who has the potential to cause trouble for you, it is safe practice to always have another reliable person on the RCIA team present during these conversations. when it verges on a pastoral area, matter for confession etc. that absolutely must be referred to the priest.
 
puzzleannie said:
#1, it may be that you are there for her, she is the one you are meant to reach at this time

#2 it may be she is given to you to deal with for your own purification

#3 it may be that you should refer her to the pastor for a d to the
Click to expand...
I can understand #2 - in fact, I started praying for her, something I always need to be reminded of, so I know I’ve got a long ways to go! Don’t know what she’ll be getting from me, unless I can let go of my feelings & let the Holy Spirit through.

It’s unfortunate that our priest can’t always make it to the classes. He has 3 parishes & he has to leave for a 2nd mass shortly after mass at our parish. But he will be talking with each person coming into RCIA - he did that last year, his first with us.

She isn’t any poorer than I am, but she does have 30 cats! 🤷
I know she has mental problems of some sort, & probably needs medical help - just don’t know how to get her to get the help she needs.

We had another mentally ill person join the Church a few years ago - before I was helping with RCIA. She attended for a few months after her baptism, but we haven’t seen her since. I tried to talk with her a couple of times, but she refused. Hard to talk with someone who just walks away.

One thing Alice wants is someone to pick her up. She has a car, & she’s less than a mile from the church, but she likes to have someone wake her up & fuss over her. Last year 2 people tried to help with this, but she made them late for mass, so they quit. I told her she has to make the decision on her own to get up in the morning, even if she’d rather not.

If she keeps coming around, we - the RCIA team - will have a talk with our pastor.
 
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