"Right" to die

[sosayi1960]

Hell is also a free choice.

Maybe God really doesn’t care about us failures. He has scewed up differnt aspects of creation.

 

[LJN21]

Maybe God really doesn’t care about us failures. He has scewed up differnt aspects of creation.

Maybe God doesn’t think we are failures and gave us free will so we could choose to serve him or not.

 

[LJN21]

God has made some mistakes. He was wrong with some of creation. He shouldn’t have made some people. Jesus himself said: It would be better if some people had never been born.

That doesn’t mean he made a mistake. God can not make mistakes. WE can however. We can infact mess up so bad and be so deep in deliberate sin it would have been better for us to have never been born.

 

[Miserissima]

What proof do you have of that? It might be the gateway to much greater pain.

I’m not just talking about physical pain. Doesn’t scripiture say something about leaving some things up to us. Maybe God is just giving sucide as a free choice.

Suicide is a free choice. In the book of Tobit, Sarah clearly wants to commit suicide, but chooses not to because of the shame it would bring on her father. So, instead, she prays to God to take her life, giving the choice over to God. In due time, God sent the angel Raphael to help her – Tobias 3:10-25, “The Prayer of Sarah” (Douay-Rheims Challoner Rev, edit and emphasis mine):

…but continuing in prayer with tears besought God, that he would deliver her from this reproach. And it came to pass on the third day, when she was making an end of her prayer, blessing the Lord, she said: "Blessed is thy name, O God of our fathers: who when thou hast been angry, wilt shew mercy, and in the time of tribulation forgivest the sins of them that call upon thee.

To thee, O Lord, I turn my face, to thee I direct my eyes. I beg, O Lord, that thou loose me from the bond of this reproach, or else take me away from the earth.

Thou knowest, O Lord, that I never coveted a husband, and have kept my soul clean from all lust. Never have I joined myself with them that play: neither have I made myself partaker with them that walk in lightness.

But a husband I consented to take, with thy fear, not with my lust – and either I was unworthy of them, or they perhaps were not worthy of me: because perhaps thou hast kept me for another man, for thy counsel is not in man’s power.

But this every one is sure of that worshippeth thee, that his life, if it be under trial, shall be crowned: and if it be under tribulation, it shall be delivered: and if it be under correction, it shall be allowed to come to thy mercy.

For thou art not delighted in our being lost: because after a storm thou makest a calm, and after tears and weeping thou pourest in joyfulness. Be thy name, O God of Israel, blessed for ever."

At that time [her] prayers were heard in the sight of the glory of the most high God. And the holy angel of the Lord, Raphael was sent to heal [her], whose prayers…were rehearsed in the sight of the Lord.

I find it interesting that she didn’t kill herself because it was “against God’s law,” but because of hte shame it would bring to her family.

So God could have answered her prayer and ended the “reproach” she suffered, but in His time He worked it all out. She needed patience, and put the situation in the hands of God.

 

[st_lucy]

Couldn’t suicide be the best solution for some people? Maybe God Expects some people to do it. Sometimes death has got to better than life. It sure takes away all the pain.

Have you ever had someone very close to you commit suicide? And someone very close to die of a horrible disease?

I have had an uncle who killed himself some fifteen years ago. My family who a is very close Hispanic family where completely shocked and shaken by his sudden death. We have never really fully overcome this horrific incident. We have all confessed to having self blame and to trying to find answers to this death that we can never really understand.

About four years ago my aunt died a horrible painful death from breast cancer. It was a rather fast death from the diagnosis to the time of death it was exactly one year. We all got the opportunity to suffer with her. We all got to be at her bed side as she slipped out of our world and into eternity. We are very much aware and pained by her absences but we are also very much aware of the fact that her life and death had meaning.

You see in my uncles death, we were shocked and confussed, not knowing how to handle such a death. We had never even given suicide a second thought before his death. We have since learned that Suicide is the most selfish thing a person can do. You see death just like birth, is something that not only the one going through the action is experiencing, it touches all. When suicide is committed you are leaving behind a whole mess of people who are left with so much hurt.

In my aunt’s death, the family has moved on so much faster. I remember after my uncles death it was so hard for us all to gather together. We were all so hurt and confussed, blame laid on us all. It literally took us years to be able to all be together at the same time. When my aunt died we were all together at her death, at the funeral and everyday for months afterwards. We are all able to be together without the guilt of could we have prevented this death. Because you see her death was not taken out of selfishness, but rather out of selflessness. There is a big difference between the two. Suicide = Hurt, confusion, and uncertainty. Natural death = comfort of knowing it is out of your control and there is something bigger than you. I really believe that those who push suicide assisted deaths are only trying to push the idea that there is no God.

 

[urban-hermit]

Thanks for this thread - interesting and timely topic.

I highly recommend the following video:
saltandlighttv.org/prog_special_ttt.html

It is made by a Catholic TV network in Canada, and features a variety of articulate and beautiful handicapped people speaking powerfully and intelligently about the folly of Physician-Assisted Suicide and the great danger it poses to the most vulnerable among us.

Please do order this video, please watch it, and please consider showing it at your parish. It is up to us to educate people about this issue before it is rammed down our throat by the media and voted in by droves of misinformed Catholics. Unfortunately, we cannot wait for our bishops and priests to teach people about this.

 

[burnside]

When a clergyman gets arrested after his wife dies,i start to worry

bbc.co.uk/scotland/glasgowandwestofscotland/

 

[blessedtoo]

Couldn’t suicide be the best solution for some people? Maybe God Expects some people to do it. Sometimes death has got to better than life. It sure takes away all the pain.

I’m not sure if you’re really interested in a serious discussion but I am compelled to respond to this assertion that suicide is a possible “solution”.

My grandpa committed suicide and my mother and aunt, who are both in their 80’s, never recovered from his tremendous act of cowardice and selfishness. At 82, my mom, who has Alzheimer’s, can still recall all the details of her dad’s suicide (he hung himself ) and the subsequent agony that it caused his family.

A young woman I work with recently left her husband of 15 years. Three weeks later, he hung himself. She, her 3 small children, his parents, her family, her co-workers are ALL, every last one of them, shattered and destroyed by his selfish act.

Even if you take God out of the equation, even if you ignore the religious (and that’s all religions) prohibitions against taking one’s own life, you can’t get around the human devastation such an act causes.