Robert George: The Days of Being a Socially Acceptable Christian Are Over

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What do you mean you’re not “acceptable” anywhere?

Do schools kick you out? Libraries? Movie theaters? Can you not go into a grocery store? Are you not invited to parties? Are you kicked out of restaurants?

Or do many people simply disagree with you?

What do you mean?

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AND, apparently, it is not socially acceptable for Christians to play the victim card, either. :hmmm:
 
AND, apparently, it is not socially acceptable for Christians to play the victim card, either. :hmmm:
You can play the “victim card” if you want to. Just be prepared to be laughed at… when you consider yourself a “victim”.
 
AND, apparently, it is not socially acceptable for Christians to play the victim card, either. :hmmm:
No, in fact, the secular left in America will go out of it’s way to tell us we are not, even though we are the ones discriminated against in violation of the First Amendment.

They think they get to decide who is a true victim and who isn’t.

The idea here is to try and blunt obvious accusations of hypocrisy.
 
What do you mean you’re not “acceptable” anywhere?

Do schools kick you out? Libraries? Movie theaters? Can you not go into a grocery store? Are you not invited to parties? Are you kicked out of restaurants?

Or do many people simply disagree with you?

What do you mean?

.
I meant we are a very small group and our views are unpopular on both the Left and the Right. “Conservative” Christians such as most on this board would identify as would at least be welcome at a Ted Cruz rally. If I carry a placard saying “I am against the right to choose, and I am for raising the minimum wage” I will be decried, at the very least, both at a Clinton rally and at a Cruz rally. That is what I meant.

Notice I said “are unacceptable”, not “are persecuted”. So much for “playing the victim card” :shrug:as some other posters here have characterized it. It’s good to pay attention to what posts actually say.
 
If you’re a Christian in the Middle East, China or Africa, yes you are persecuted.

If you’re a Christian in the US, people may disagree with you and even accuse you of nasty things, but it is hardly persecution. However it may not always be this way.
 
If you’re a Christian in the Middle East, China or Africa, yes you are persecuted.

If you’re a Christian in the US, people may disagree with you and even accuse you of nasty things, but it is hardly persecution. However it may not always be this way.
Like being fined for refusing a gay wedding cake? or a gay reception? or being forced to pay for abortion on a national health plan by a president who tells us we won’t have to have our consciences violated?
 
I meant we are a very small group and our views are unpopular on both the Left and the Right. “Conservative” Christians such as most on this board would identify as would at least be welcome at a Ted Cruz rally. If I carry a placard saying “I am against the right to choose, and I am for raising the minimum wage” I will be decried, at the very least, both at a Clinton rally and at a Cruz rally. That is what I meant.

Notice I said “are unacceptable”, not “are persecuted”. So much for “playing the victim card” :shrug:as some other posters here have characterized it. It’s good to pay attention to what posts actually say.
Here’s the problem:

Too many Christians dig around trying to find a progressive cause, even if just one to support, I think, for fear of looking backwards in front of others and supporting a progressive cause or two gets their foot in the door with the in crowd.

It can be the minimum wage, gay “marriage”, or whatever.

At worst, it’s intellectual laziness assuming that the right is all good and well on life and marriage, but the left is good on helping people. Sadly, there are pro-choice, anti-marriage conservatives (although it doesn’t help that many minorities vote against their values) and as far as the left’s economic policies of “helping”----just take a gander across 8-mile road in Detroit or the South Side of Chicago.

A good Christian will always look for the Truth—even if it means standing opposite of a popular crowd with signs.

As far as raising the minimum wage goes, that is an interesting topic. Had the private sector got it’s act together on this, there would be less incentive to get government involved.

But reports are now surfacing that cities in American that have raised the minimum wage have businesses that are not hiring.

What irks me about raising the minimum wage is that people who support this (including those who just want to hold a sign at rally) are oblivious (perhaps intentionally so) to the effects it has on young Black men, who have an atrociously high unemployment, as well as getting high school kids to help out on the farm during summer.

What about them?

Oh, and one final note:

You’re not playing a card if you really are a victim.
 
If you’re a Christian in the Middle East, China or Africa, yes you are persecuted.

If you’re a Christian in the US, people may disagree with you and even accuse you of nasty things, but it is hardly persecution. However it may not always be this way.
I think the Little Sisters of the Poor would disagree with this assessment. So would the Lutherans have before the Supreme Court rejected this administration’s persecution of them in the Hosanna-Tabor case.

Legal persecution begins with small steps and progresses to larger ones unless it’s stopped.

I think the “social persecution” aspect of it depends on where one lives. I live in a very conservative area in which protestant fundamentalists and evangelicals are the majority. One does not get persecuted here for being prolife or pro-marriage. On the contrary.

But I think it’s different in other places.
 
You can play the “victim card” if you want to. Just be prepared to be laughed at… when you consider yourself a “victim”.
My friend, Christians have and will be persecuted. The victim card is part of that, because the secular left is trying to head that off at the pass because they know they are victimizing Christian businesses and wedding clerks like Kim Davis.

The left thinks it gets to decide who is a victim and who isn’t, just like they think they get to decide what and who is racist.

Of course, I haven’t seen these bold, principled social justice warriors take on a Black congregation in the deep south or a mosque or Muslim charity in Dearborn.
 
You can play the “victim card” if you want to. Just be prepared to be laughed at… when you consider yourself a “victim”.
Well, that was my point, actually. Anyone who has any intuition at all about Christianity knows that “playing the victim card” has no part in it, however “playing the victim card” is assumed and permitted by pretty much every modern social cause: feminism, gay rights, transgender issues, immigration, inclusivity, abortion, micro-aggression, Black Lives Matter, etc., etc.

Now, of course, you will argue that it is “laughable” that Christians view themselves as victims when they have done the victimizing. However, you see it that way precisely because you are not a Christian and have already created a caricature of what’s it means to be one that you now find “laughable.” The same could be said about anyone who views any of the other modern social issue “victim claims” to be “laughable.” It is purely due to lack of empathy with those “victims.” But, of course, you have no empathy for Christians, which is why you find the claim one to be laughed at.

Yet, the entire endeavor for a Christian in the world is to be a true victim for every possible outrage and bear it silently, manfully and without second thought. In that sense, every “victim” of modern social ills who view themselves as victims are, in fact, failed Christians which is why they grumble. They don’t appear to possess sufficient grace to endure without complaint. In that sense, it IS laughable for Christians to consider themselves “victims” because being a victim and “shrugging it off” by supernatural grace is what it means to be a Christian in the first place.

So the failure of some Christians in the modern world has been the failure to demonstrate to the world how to properly and graciously be and overcome being a victim as Christ did. On the other hand, that grace has been demonstrated by many Christians in many places in the world – persecutions and beheadings by ISIS being one instance –*but not acknowledged for what it is precisely because moderns do not want to dispense with playing the victim card altogether, which would be required by grace.
 
Like being fined for refusing a gay wedding cake? or a gay reception? or being forced to pay for abortion on a national health plan by a president who tells us we won’t have to have our consciences violated?
The above events is news because it is still rare here. I have mentioned in my post that things will not be the same and the persecutions will multiply but as of now they are still rare at least in the US. At least Christians here are not being dragged off and killed not like in the land of my birth.
 
“Professor George added that people can still safely identify as “Catholic” as long as they don’t believe, or will at least be completely silent about, “what the Church teaches on issues such as marriage and sexual morality and the sanctity of human life.””

Those who live in a place where they can be vocal and approving of the Catholic Church’s positions on issues of sexual morality, marriage, abortion, and euthanasia, are blessed. But I have not come across a place where Catholic moral views are generally accepted. They might have been generally accepted sixty years ago throughout the nation; now they are scoffed at.
 
I just can’t relate to this. I have been an unapologetic Christian for 50 years - it’s true that in certain periods of my life, I have been more devout than others. But still, forever, Christianity has been the prism through which I experience and navigate the world. And I feel very socially accepted.

Now what I can understand - and I think this second understanding is more the thrust of this particular opinion - is that the culture no longer accepts views concerning human sexuality that are believed and taught by some Christians. Homosexuality and abc are probably the two biggest places where some Christians and wider society diverge.

But those are such tiny issues.

My experience is that wider society (culture) absolutely accepts and even longs for the Christian values that are at the forefront of our faith - love, charity, kindness, faithfulness, hope, beauty, patience, forgiveness, fellowship, etc… These things are not tiny. These things should be our witness.
 
“Professor George added that people can still safely identify as “Catholic” as long as they don’t believe, or will at least be completely silent about, “what the Church teaches on issues such as marriage and sexual morality and the sanctity of human life.””

Those who live in a place where they can be vocal and approving of the Catholic Church’s positions on issues of sexual morality, marriage, abortion, and euthanasia, are blessed. But I have not come across a place where Catholic moral views are generally accepted. They might have been generally accepted sixty years ago throughout the nation; now they are scoffed at.
Yes, I agree that sixty years ago dogma fit right in with the era, not so much today. 1950+ was a very different time - television was just rolling out to the common man, most women were stay at home moms, even though many had worked during the War, there was no ABC other than condoms, you did not have a virtual computer in your hand where you could research claims immediately from many different sources, most people did not have college degrees since college was for the rich, etc… Most western Catholics do not believe the “party line” when It comes to contraception, so they are not afraid to vocalize their views on that subject. 🤷
 
But those are such tiny issues.

My experience is that wider society (culture) absolutely accepts and even longs for the Christian values that are at the forefront of our faith - love, charity, kindness, faithfulness, hope, beauty, patience, forgiveness, fellowship, etc… These things are not tiny. These things should be our witness.
Abortion is not a “tiny issue”. Killing is, of its nature, never a tiny issue.
 
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