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fix
Guest
How novel.
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Daniel_Kane
Guest
Possibly the original poster might be confusing the schism that occurred at Corpus Christi parish about 8 years ago. This parish was led by a charismatic pastor who rebelled against the Church’s teachings on homosexual marriage, the ordination of women and the ministry to people with variety of sexual issues (transgender, gay, bisexual etc.), married priesthood and contraception to name a few. All of this activity was in complete opposition to Church teaching and went on for years (remember this is close to 8 years ago).
The charisma of the pastor attracted many. And to be brutally frank, this community is probably the most socially aware and socially helpful community I have ever heard of anywhere. This breeded a sense of pride that outweighed their sense of obedience and loyalty to the Church.The community felt that since they did such great works, they were somehow exempt form obedience to the minimum standards of Catholic worship and teaching. This is a common fault where people trade a grievous fault, defect or sin for a great act somewhere else and think that they balance one another out.
Many of the Catholics loyal to the Church complained, made videos of homosexual marriage ceremonies, female priestesses (ordained by Old Catholic Bishops), etc. Bishop Clark did nothing. Nothing. No response, public or private. On this point all parties agree.
Finally, at the time of Clark’s ad limina visit, he had some uninvited guests who also traveled to Rome a month or two earlier with videos and tapes of the liturgical and catechetical fiascos copies of letters of complaint and long story short, the axe fell upon his return.Now, the community is called “Spiritus Christi” and they rent space in the Presbyterian Church and some theater for services.
This may be the root of the original posting. Schism is a rare event. The Diocese of Rochester and her bishop are and always have been in full communion.
At the same time, both the Diocese and the Bishop have been a grievous disappointment over the last 25 years. I was an altar server at his installation and still spend my summers and the month of December in his diocese. The diocese is contracting for sure, Churches some 100s of years old, closing or combining. Vocations practically non-existent.
There is a brand new Catherdral there while all these churches and schools closed. Just what they needed.
If they only knew that orthodoxy and in particular, Catholic orthodoxy is the most exciting thing, the most challenging thing going. Surely there are a few bright lights in the city but in the Finger Lakes there are none. In the city you have 10 Churches to pick from so this is natural. In the rural areas, it is not so.
Orthodoxy breeds growth. “Whatever” breeds whatever. The handwashing vs foot washing fiasco recently reported is just a microcosm of what will soon be a consolidated diocese. It would seem like the magnificent liturgy of Holy Thursday is somehow not good enough. What Jesus himself did some how not exciting enough and it immediately recalls to my mind who washed his hand during the Pascal Triduum, and although he is remembered in the Creed, it is not a good memory.
I know that there are good people there who are frustrated. I am frustrated when I am there because I remember first hand the joy and anticipation of Bishop Clark. I for one, wished he never left the seminary Rome. I pray for Bishop Clark a lot espacially when I am in NY because he has made one huge mess that is costing souls by the dozen.
Ultimately, the Diocese of Rochester will consolidate itself w/ Buffalo or Syracuse as more and more Catholics leave in frustration and anger. I for one, would never move my business back there because the situation as I read it is a hazard to the Faith of my children and that, I am personally responsible for.
The charisma of the pastor attracted many. And to be brutally frank, this community is probably the most socially aware and socially helpful community I have ever heard of anywhere. This breeded a sense of pride that outweighed their sense of obedience and loyalty to the Church.The community felt that since they did such great works, they were somehow exempt form obedience to the minimum standards of Catholic worship and teaching. This is a common fault where people trade a grievous fault, defect or sin for a great act somewhere else and think that they balance one another out.
Many of the Catholics loyal to the Church complained, made videos of homosexual marriage ceremonies, female priestesses (ordained by Old Catholic Bishops), etc. Bishop Clark did nothing. Nothing. No response, public or private. On this point all parties agree.
Finally, at the time of Clark’s ad limina visit, he had some uninvited guests who also traveled to Rome a month or two earlier with videos and tapes of the liturgical and catechetical fiascos copies of letters of complaint and long story short, the axe fell upon his return.Now, the community is called “Spiritus Christi” and they rent space in the Presbyterian Church and some theater for services.
This may be the root of the original posting. Schism is a rare event. The Diocese of Rochester and her bishop are and always have been in full communion.
At the same time, both the Diocese and the Bishop have been a grievous disappointment over the last 25 years. I was an altar server at his installation and still spend my summers and the month of December in his diocese. The diocese is contracting for sure, Churches some 100s of years old, closing or combining. Vocations practically non-existent.
There is a brand new Catherdral there while all these churches and schools closed. Just what they needed.
If they only knew that orthodoxy and in particular, Catholic orthodoxy is the most exciting thing, the most challenging thing going. Surely there are a few bright lights in the city but in the Finger Lakes there are none. In the city you have 10 Churches to pick from so this is natural. In the rural areas, it is not so.
Orthodoxy breeds growth. “Whatever” breeds whatever. The handwashing vs foot washing fiasco recently reported is just a microcosm of what will soon be a consolidated diocese. It would seem like the magnificent liturgy of Holy Thursday is somehow not good enough. What Jesus himself did some how not exciting enough and it immediately recalls to my mind who washed his hand during the Pascal Triduum, and although he is remembered in the Creed, it is not a good memory.
I know that there are good people there who are frustrated. I am frustrated when I am there because I remember first hand the joy and anticipation of Bishop Clark. I for one, wished he never left the seminary Rome. I pray for Bishop Clark a lot espacially when I am in NY because he has made one huge mess that is costing souls by the dozen.
Ultimately, the Diocese of Rochester will consolidate itself w/ Buffalo or Syracuse as more and more Catholics leave in frustration and anger. I for one, would never move my business back there because the situation as I read it is a hazard to the Faith of my children and that, I am personally responsible for.
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nohself
Guest
I’m in the Rochester diocese. I actually live in Canandaigua during the week now, but on the weekends I usually go back to Rochester. I used to go to St. Andrew’s church on Portland Ave. Horrible what’s going on there. I wrote several letters to the priest there, Father Mike Mayer (to whom I had been pretty close), about different abuses that were going on in the parish, especially lay homilies and the division of power, the emergence of a female hierarchy. He finally agreed to meet with me but was very pompous during the conversation, acting as if I knew nothing about Church history and didn’t know how things go. I had all the required documentation to back up my position, but they had no effect. I left shortly afterward. I then was going to join the Life Teen ministry there to help them out, but when I realized what it was all about I told them that I was quitting and why. St. Andrew’s and Annunication churchs, which are joined, are now full-blown ultra-liberal, charismatic churches–still in communion with Rome, of course, but seemingly on the slippery slope.
I now am a member of St. Cecilia’s on Culver Road, a part of the Irondequoit parishes (Rochester diocese, of course). It’s much more orthodox, but I’m still not satisfied. This diocese is riddled with problems. One of the more unorthodox dioceses in the country actually.
Jamie
I now am a member of St. Cecilia’s on Culver Road, a part of the Irondequoit parishes (Rochester diocese, of course). It’s much more orthodox, but I’m still not satisfied. This diocese is riddled with problems. One of the more unorthodox dioceses in the country actually.
Jamie
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Fast_ed75
Guest
“Full Commuinion”
In history if a Bishop was allowing female ordinations, baptisms by priestesses, or had a “gay pride” mass as this Bishop did- he would have been sent to a monastery on a mountain.
WHO’S WHO IN WINDSWEPT HOUSE
47. Bp. Primas Rochefort (NY) - Bp. Matthew Clark, Rochester
48. Bp. Bruce Longbottham (MI) - Bp. Kenneth Untener, Saginaw
49. Abp. Cuthbert Delish (WI) - Abp. Rembert Weakland, Milwaukee (retired)
50. Bp. Manley Motherhubbe (NY) - Bp. Howard Hubbard, Albany
51. Bp. Raymond Luckenbill (MN) - Bp. Raymond Lucker, New Ulm
52. Bp. Ralph Goodenough (IL) - composite of Chicago auxiliaries
53. Sr. Fran Fedora (Seattle) - Fran Ferder
In history if a Bishop was allowing female ordinations, baptisms by priestesses, or had a “gay pride” mass as this Bishop did- he would have been sent to a monastery on a mountain.
WHO’S WHO IN WINDSWEPT HOUSE
47. Bp. Primas Rochefort (NY) - Bp. Matthew Clark, Rochester
48. Bp. Bruce Longbottham (MI) - Bp. Kenneth Untener, Saginaw
49. Abp. Cuthbert Delish (WI) - Abp. Rembert Weakland, Milwaukee (retired)
50. Bp. Manley Motherhubbe (NY) - Bp. Howard Hubbard, Albany
51. Bp. Raymond Luckenbill (MN) - Bp. Raymond Lucker, New Ulm
52. Bp. Ralph Goodenough (IL) - composite of Chicago auxiliaries
53. Sr. Fran Fedora (Seattle) - Fran Ferder
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bonnie_ryder
Guest
Oddly enough I was going to ask you that same question. Thanks …Looks like there is alot of others in this town that are looking. We, sorry to say have a leader that allows abuse in the churchs in Rochester and hopfully with the Holy Spirit it will not last very much longer.
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Scotty_PGH
Guest
Daniel Kane:
I understand what schism is and certainly know that the Diocese of Rochester is not in schism. Please re-read the original question, as I think that was pretty clear.
Actually, no. I never used the word “schism.” I was just curious about the state of the Rochester diocese in general, since I’d heard on this forum a number of distressing stories suggesting some Rochester churches had become extremely liberal. Having lived in Rochester as a child, I found that kind of hard to understand, so I was asking for more discussion on the topic.
I understand what schism is and certainly know that the Diocese of Rochester is not in schism. Please re-read the original question, as I think that was pretty clear.
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kmmd
Guest
Daniel Kane:
First thing I did was stop giving them money. Since 1994 I have written a fat check each November to Adoremus (Society for the renewal of the sacred Liturgy), made a copy of the check and sent it in with my Thanksgiving appeal pledge card. In 2000 I had to stop giving money to my parish,
At the irreverent Masses, I try to unite my suffering to Jesus. As long as the Mass is valid, I will stay here and try to be a witness to His Presence.
All that having been said, I think that there are signs of a new springtime here. We may not have a parish very long, but God will never abandon us.
I am rambling. I logged on to ask for information, so I will start a new thread. Thanks for letting me unload.
I am a member of a very rural parish in the Diocese of Rochester. Sadly, our parish has gone through some very hard times and I have considered leaving more than once, but I haven’t yet and here’s why: First this is my home. My husband and I were married in this church, our daughter was baptised, recieved her first communion and was confirmed here, three of our 4 parents were buried from this Church. My mother still attends Mass here. If I left I would be abandoning my parish. Instead I have decided to stay and fight the good fight. It hasn’t been easy but I think that there are definite rays of sunshine. We must remember that this Church is the Kingdom of God on earth. God is the one who chose Bishop Clark to lead us. We may not like it, but we have to have hope and to trust in His providence and His mercy. In the history of the Church the great periods of reformation relied on the conversion and faithful obedience of the Laity. The Bishops were sometimes clueless.
First thing I did was stop giving them money. Since 1994 I have written a fat check each November to Adoremus (Society for the renewal of the sacred Liturgy), made a copy of the check and sent it in with my Thanksgiving appeal pledge card. In 2000 I had to stop giving money to my parish,
At the irreverent Masses, I try to unite my suffering to Jesus. As long as the Mass is valid, I will stay here and try to be a witness to His Presence.
All that having been said, I think that there are signs of a new springtime here. We may not have a parish very long, but God will never abandon us.
I am rambling. I logged on to ask for information, so I will start a new thread. Thanks for letting me unload.
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