Rom 12:1 Question for Greek Scholars

[garysibio]

The Greek word translated “spiritual” in this verse is logikos which, according to Strong’s, usually means logical or reasonable. I don’t have my RSV-CE with me at the moment but the regular RSV translates this as “spiritual” as does all of the other Protestant translations I could find on-line. The NJB uses “sensible” which seems to fit with the primary definition as used by Strong’s:

1. pertaining to speech or speaking
2. pertaining to the reason or logic
   
   a) spiritual, pertaining to the soul
   b) agreeable to reason, following reason, reasonable, logical​

Why do all these translations relegate the primary meaning of the word to the footnote?

 

[GEddie]

The Greek word translated “spiritual” in this verse is logikos which, according to Strong’s, usually means logical or reasonable. I don’t have my RSV-CE with me at the moment but the regular RSV translates this as “spiritual” as does all of the other Protestant translations I could find on-line. The NJB uses “sensible” which seems to fit with the primary definition as used by Strong’s:

1. pertaining to speech or speaking
2. pertaining to the reason or logic
   
   a) spiritual, pertaining to the soul
   b) agreeable to reason, following reason, reasonable, logical​

Why do all these translations relegate the primary meaning of the word to the footnote?

In my copy of the Greek NT, logikos is footnoted as “rational, spiritual.”

It would seem that either term is a valid translation of logikos.

ICXC NIKA

 

[garysibio]

In my copy of the Greek NT, logikos is footnoted as “rational, spiritual.”

It would seem that either term is a valid translation of logikos.

ICXC NIKA

Thanks for responding.

It seemed to me that rational was the primary translation and spiritual the secondary. Even though I don’t know Greek I would have thought that the obvious similarities between logikos and logos would have meant that “rational” was the more obvious choice to make if a choice exists. The NJB translators thought so. Do you have any idea why the others would pick “spiritual”?

 

[DianaCC]

It boils down to the messy overlap between English and Greek. *Rational *currently carries a connotation of sober level-headedness that is not what Paul had in mind with λογικός with its sense of *conceptual *in contrast with physical. *Spiritual *is a fair rendition given the context. *Interior *comes to mind.

 

[GEddie]

I’d say that it has to do with the idea of the “rational soul” theologically. The rational soul is spiritual; it does the Godly things in our life, as the human body keeps us humanly alive.

“Rational” doesn’t fit this verse in English, because the English word has a connotation of logical, obvious, clear or straightforward. Offering our bodies as any kind of a sacrifice is NOT “rational” in this sense. But it is the action of the rational soul, which is spiritual. Hence the translation.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

The Greek word translated “spiritual” in this verse is logikos which, according to Strong’s, usually means logical or reasonable. I don’t have my RSV-CE with me at the moment but the regular RSV translates this as “spiritual” as does all of the other Protestant translations I could find on-line. The NJB uses “sensible” which seems to fit with the primary definition as used by Strong’s:

1. pertaining to speech or speaking
2. pertaining to the reason or logic
   
   a) spiritual, pertaining to the soul
   b) agreeable to reason, following reason, reasonable, logical​

Why do all these translations relegate the primary meaning of the word to the footnote?

“Spiritual” seems like a pretty poor choice, especially considering its use in contemporary English. Here the entry:

perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dlogiko%2Fs

Unfortunately, translators rarely tell you how they arrived at their conclusions. (Personally, I’d go for “logical.”) I think the word only appears at one other place in the NT and not at all in the Septuagint, so it’s hard to say what the word “usually” meant in this particular context. But best to rely on a good dictionary.

If memory serves (could be wrong), KJV has “reasonable.”

 

[Mintaka]

Yeah, most of the older English translations have “reasonable service”.

But really, Paul does mean that it’s logical and rational. You have all this stuff in Romans 11 about all that God has generously and freely done for us, so it’s only logical and reasonable and proper and orderly and poetically right, that we should respond to what we’ve been given with generosity and sacrifice and worship. Since we’re not doing sheep sacrifice any more, and since we’re part of the Lamb’s Body, it’s logical to regard our bodies as a sort of sacrificial critter already given to God totally, even though we’re somehow still on the hoof.

 

[garysibio]

Thanks all for your help.

 

[ryanoneil]

“Rational” would make sense if Paul was contrasting the sacrifice of irrational animals under the Old Covenant.

 

[thistle]

The Greek word translated “spiritual” in this verse is logikos which, according to Strong’s, usually means logical or reasonable. I don’t have my RSV-CE with me at the moment but the regular RSV translates this as “spiritual” as does all of the other Protestant translations I could find on-line. The NJB uses “sensible” which seems to fit with the primary definition as used by Strong’s:

1. pertaining to speech or speaking
2. pertaining to the reason or logic
   
   a) spiritual, pertaining to the soul
   b) agreeable to reason, following reason, reasonable, logical​

Why do all these translations relegate the primary meaning of the word to the footnote?

D-R Bible does not use spritual.

1 I beseech you, therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, *that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, your reasonable service.

Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 1. With this chapter St. Paul begins his second part, in which he gives us most excellent lessons of morality, after which every Christian should aim to form his life, and thus resemble Jesus Christ and his saints. (Haydock) — That you present your bodies a living sacrifice. And how must this be done? says St. Chrysostom, hom. xx. Let the eye abstain from sinful looks and glances, and it is a sacrifice; the tongue from speaking ill, and it is a sacrifice, &c. — Your reasonable service, or worship,[1] from you; nothing being more reasonable, than for men to serve God with their souls and bodies, &c. (Witham)

 

[DianaCC]

Right, the DRC has *reasonable *and the underlying Latin has rationabilis.