Rom. 3:23

[junostarlighter]

i know how fundamentalists and protestants like to use this verse to argue against the immaculate conception. i read the ‘immaculate conception and assumption’ article in the library and i agree with it. my question: when paul wrote rom. 3:23, was he refering to a pslam? if so, which pslam and does that play any significance with the immaculate conception?

 

[Della]

The Psalms you refer to are probably these:

Ps.78:61 and delivered his power to captivity, his glory to the hand of the foe.

Ps.89:17 For thou art the glory of their strength; by thy favor our horn is exalted.

What a Fundamentalist is arguing is the the “glory of the Lord” in Rom. 3:23 means Christ, who is the glory of God. And since no one can claim to be as exulted as Christ, it proves that all other human beings have sinned. It’s a stretch, to say the least. Especially when we take into consideration that when the angel Gabriel announced to Mary that the “glory of the Lord [would] come upon [her]” and so she would “conceive of the Holy Spirit,” it is plain that she was already consecrated to the Lord, which is a strong support for the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Romans 3:23 says:

since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
This seems to refer back to Romans 3:10:
as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one.”
which in turn seems to be from Psalm 14:2-4.
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God. They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; there is none that does good, no, not one.

 

[Pauli]

`I happen to be reading Romans for Lent. It’s a deep study, and and takes some time and pondering to understand, explaining about the Law and its purpose, and the difference Jesus makes, and I’m still absorbing what I can. However, I think its better to read all this in context to understand it.

Regarding the verse in question, III-23, it is preceded by verse 21 and 22: “But now the justice of God has been made manifesxt independently of the Law, being attested by the Law and the Prophets; the just of God through faith in Jesus Christ upon all who believe…”

“All who believe.” Are we going to argue, then, that Mary the mother of Jesus had no faith? When she had unprecedented faith and trust in God, to bring Him into the world?

The footnote in the version I am from (New Catholic Confraternity Edition), says about verse 21: “The justice of God through faith is not that holiness whereby God is just, but that grace which He imparts to the soul to make it really, intrinsicallly pleasing and holy in His sight. The necessary condition for obtaining the infusion of this divine gift is faith, not a bare speculative faith, but a practical faith which through the love of God effects the observance of the commandments and the performance of other good works.”

Other good works. The whole book of Romans surely doesn’t say we shouldn’t do good works. I think its more like, without grace we couldn’t do any good works in God’s sight, God is too holy for us creatures. But God through Jesus gives us the grace to do it. It’s like we the vines bearing fruits, we are supposed to bring forth fruits, it’s our gift back to God, but we have to stay on the true vine.