Rom 5:13-14

[garysibio]

In this passage St. Paul is talking of the spread of sin as a result of the sin of Adam and Eve and our redemption in Jesus. These particular verses speak of those who lived prior to Moses and had no law. If I am understanding it correctly, they suffered death because of sin but were not judged for them. To me this implies that anyone who lived prior to Moses is now in Heaven.

I realize that the Church has not explained every single passage in the Bible but I was wondering if anyone knew of any insight into this passage?

Gary

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

[SIGN]Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so death spread to everyone, because all have sinned.
Rom 5:13 Certainly sin was in the world before the law was given, but no record of sin is kept when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 **Nevertheless, death ruled from the time of Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin in the same way Adam did **when he disobeyed. He is a type of the one who would come.
Rom 5:15 But God’s free gift is not like Adam’s offense. For if many people died as the result of one man’s offense, how much more have God’s grace and the free gift given through the kindness of one man, Jesus Christ, been showered on many people![/SIGN]

In reading the commentary in the NAB, such as it is, I found reference to this:

[SIGN]Rom 2:12 For all who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
Rom 2:13 For it is not merely those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight. No, it is those who do the law, who will be justified.
Rom 2:14 For whenever gentiles, **who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that what the law requires is written in their hearts, a fact to which their own consciences testify, and their thoughts will either accuse or excuse them **[/SIGN]

In going back to Genesis:

[SIGN]Gen 4:9 And Jehovah said to Cain, Where is your brother Abel? And he said, I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?
Gen 4:10 And He said, What have you done? The voice of the blood of your brother cries to Me from the ground.
Gen 4:11 And now you are cursed more than the ground which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.[/SIGN]

and

[SIGN]Gen 4:23 And Lamech said to his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice, you wives of Lamech; listen to my words; for I have killed a man because of my wound, and a young man because of my hurt.
Gen 4:24 For Cain is avenged sevenfold, and Lamech seventy seve[/SIGN]n.

Cain and Lamech both knew what they did was wrong - it was written in their hearts.

I think this means that there is a difference here, referring to your original posting, between the Original Sin - which all are condemned for, and personal accountability, Just like now.

The difference being, as stated in Rom 2:14-15 that on the one hand, the Law is written in our hearts so ignorance of the written Law is no excuse. On the other, following the Law written in our hearts excuses us from the final death - as, in this case I think, the CCC is getting at in 846-848. Even though, and I guess because of - Original Sin.

So to answer your question, I think that Sin was still judged as sin, and the wages of sin is death. Its just that in this case, the law was written on their hearts only. In looking at Noah, he was said to be the one righteous man on the earth - how could he be righteous if there was no law? How could God destroy the wicked, wholesale, if there were no boundaries present at all?

Also, when Christ descended into hell, after the Crucifixion, He took back the keys to death and Hell. All those who were contained in, I think the correct word is sheol (anybody?) kinda like Purgatory, were released. The Gospel of Matthew has this to say:

[SIGN]Mat 27:51 Suddenly the curtain in the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom, the earth shook, the rocks were split open,
Mat 27:52 the tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had died were raised.
Mat 27:53 After his resurrection, they came out of their tombs and went into the Holy City and appeared to many people.[/SIGN]

Doesn’t say anything about anybody else.

Does this help?

Peace

 

[Mea_Culpa]

In this passage St. Paul is talking of the spread of sin as a result of the sin of Adam and Eve and our redemption in Jesus. These particular verses speak of those who lived prior to Moses and had no law. If I am understanding it correctly, they suffered death because of sin but were not judged for them. To me this implies that anyone who lived prior to Moses is now in Heaven.

I realize that the Church has not explained every single passage in the Bible but I was wondering if anyone knew of any insight into this passage?

Gary

Here is what the Navarre Bible has to say about Romans 5:13-14

Both the commandment imposed by God on Adam, and the Mosaic Law, threatened the transgressor with death; but the same cannot be said of the period between Adam and Moses. In that period also people did sin against the natural law written on every person’s heard (cf. 2:12ff). However, their sins “were not like the transgression of Adam”, because the natural law did not explicitly bind under pain of death. If, nevertheless, they in fact had to die, this proves, the Apostle concludes, that death is due not to personal sins but to original sin. It is also proved, the Fathers of the Church usually add, by the fact that some people die before reaching the use of reason, that is, before they are capable of sinning.
Death is a consequence of original sin, because that sin brought with it the loss of the preternatural" gift of immortality (cf. Gen 2:17; 3:19). Adam incurred this loss when, through a personal act of his, he broke an explicit, specific command of God. Later, under the Mosaic Law, there were also certain precepts which involved the death penalty if broken (cf. eg. Exod 21:12ff; Lev 24:16). In the period from Adam to Moses there was no law which stated: If you sin, you shall die. Hoever, people in that period were all subject to death, even those who committed no sin “lie the transgression of Adam”, that is, what is termed “actual sin”.
There, death is due to a sin - original sin- which attaches to each man, woman, and child, yet which is not an “actual sin”. This original sin is the cause of death, and the fact that everyone dies is the proof that everyone is affected by original sin. The Second Vatican Council sums up this teaching as follows: “The Church, taught by divine Revelation, declares that God has created man in view of a blessed destiny that lies beyond the limits of his sad state on earth. Moreover, the Christian faith teaches that bodily death, from which man would have been immune had he not sinned (cf. Wis 1:13; 2:23-24; Rom 5:21; 6:23; Jas 1:15) will be overcome when that wholeness which he lost through his own fault will be given once again to him by the almighty and merciful Saviour. For God has called man, and still calls him, to cleave with all his being to him in sharing for ever a life that is divine and free from all decay” (Gaudium et spes, 18).

 

[tobinatorstark]

Here is the Haydock commentary for comparison

Ver. 13-14. Until the law, sin was in the world. That is, from Adam’s fall, both original sin and actual sins truly infected all mankind. (Witham) — Not imputed. That is, men knew not, or made no account of sin; neither was it imputed to them, in the manner it was afterwards, when they transgressed the known written law of God. (Challoner) — All were conceived and born in sin, in what we call original sin, and liable to death, even infants, who were not come to the use of reason, and consequently could not sin after the similitude of the transgression of Adam, or by imitating his sin, but were born in sin: and besides this, all manner of actual sins, which men committed by their own perverse will, reigned every where in the world. But before the law these sins were not imputed, that is, were not declared sins, that deserved such punishments as were ordained by the law. — Adam, who is a figure of him that was to come. That is, of Christ, whom the apostle calls the last Adam, 1 Corinthians xv. 45. But he was a figure by contraries. By the first Adam, sin and death entered into the world; by Christ, justice and life. (Witham)