Roman Catholic Eschatology II

[Raider_Red]

The following is a question that was posed in a December of 2004 in a thread titled “Roman Catholic Eschatology”:

“Has the Catholic Church made any authoritative statements with regards to eschatology? My understanding is that most Catholic theologians would take more of an amillenial position but has this ever been addressed by The Vatican? Could a believing Catholic hold to a pre-trib rapture and still be within whats accepted as orthodox? Have any of the branches of Eastern Orthodoxy given authorative statements on eschatology?”

There were a few responses to it in the thread but I didn’t feel it was directly answered and was wanting to know the answer myself. I guess the question could be boiled down to "what can a Catholic believe about the end times and still be inside the bounds of Catholic orthodoxy?

 

[mark_a]

"what can a Catholic believe about the end times and still be inside the bounds of Catholic orthodoxy?

That we don’t know when the end is, but the end for you and for me is very near.

Here’s a download that explains the Catholic view pretty well, it’s about halfway down the page:

biblechristiansociety.com/download

 

[_L]

The pre tribulaiton rapture is a false teaching, it doesnt even have consistency in scripture, and here is why…

this is the passage protestants cite to support a pre tribulation rapture:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 13

For if we believe that Jesus died, and rose again; even so them who have slept through Jesus, will God bring with him. 14For this we say unto you in the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them who have slept. 15 For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first. 16 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord. 17Wherefore, comfort ye one another with these words.

The event in this passage is mentioned two other times in the new testament to my knowledge…

1 Corinthians 15:51-55

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For that which is corruptible must clothe itself with incorruptibility, and that which is mortal must clothe itself with immortality. 54 And when this which is corruptible clothes itself with incorruptibility and this which is mortal clothes itself with immortality, then the word that is written shall come about: “Death is swallowed up in victory.55 Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”

and in…

Matthew 24:29-31

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.

These 3 passages speak of the same thing, and they occur after the tribulation, the believers who kept the faith and survived the tribulation will have the honor of being taken up to meet Jesus as He arrives for the final judgment. So this idea of the rapture can only be real in a post tribulation sense.

 

[COPLAND_3]

I figured this would be a thread that would get a lot of responses so I held off due to time restaints.

Catholic Answers site has a good article on this topic, and here is a helpful paragraph
catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been “amillennial” (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called “millenarianism” (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism “cannot safely be taught,” though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word “rapture” to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term “rapture” is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—“we will be caught up,” [Latin: rapiemur]).

The problem with a lot of premillenial positions today is that they are usually developed with anti-Catholic roots from the Reformation, and they tend to take the position that God is more concerned with the nation Israel, and the church (not Catholic Church but the mystical invisible body) is sort of a quick fix until Israel comes around, whereas amillenialists view the Church as being God’s ultimate plan being made up of both Jew and Gentile, and the Church being the spiritual Israel in which God desires, not an earthly Israel.

The premillenialists in the early Church did not share the same “church being the quick fix” as the post-Reformation premillenialists. And the Early Church premillenialists surely did not see any indications of a pretrib rapture.

 

[jerry_kelso]

The pre tribulaiton rapture is a false teaching, it doesnt even have consistency in scripture, and here is why…

this is the passage protestants cite to support a pre tribulation rapture:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 13

For if we believe that Jesus died, and rose again; even so them who have slept through Jesus, will God bring with him. 14For this we say unto you in the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them who have slept. 15 For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first. 16 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord. 17Wherefore, comfort ye one another with these words.

The event in this passage is mentioned two other times in the new testament to my knowledge…

1 Corinthians 15:51-55

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For that which is corruptible must clothe itself with incorruptibility, and that which is mortal must clothe itself with immortality. 54 And when this which is corruptible clothes itself with incorruptibility and this which is mortal clothes itself with immortality, then the word that is written shall come about: “Death is swallowed up in victory.55 Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”

and in…

Matthew 24:29-31

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.

These 3 passages speak of the same thing, and they occur after the tribulation, the believers who kept the faith and survived the tribulation will have the honor of being taken up to meet Jesus as He arrives for the final judgment. So this idea of the rapture can only be real in a post tribulation sense.

Raider Red: You are correct about 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 being used about the rapture. However, Matthew 24:29-31 talks about the 2nd advent of Christ when he comes back to establish the Kindgdom of Heaven reign. This goes along with Revelation 19:11-15; and Daniel 7:13,14,22,and verse 27. This is the millenial kingdom with the Davidic throne forever as Isaiah 9:6-7 states that the jews rejected Jesus and the kingdom was postponed; (Matthew 23:37-39.
I will stop for now untill you give better evidence…God Bless! Jerry Kelso