Romans 9:10-13

[Roamin-Catholic]

this passage is used by Calvinists who argue predestination. what is the catholic interpretation of this passage?

I am thinking that this has more to do with the fact that God chooses each of us for different purposes but I do not believe that God creates some people that he hates before they are born and that these people have no chance of salvation because they aren’t part of God’s elect.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

• Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,​

• Rom 9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants; but “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named.”
• Rom 9:8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are reckoned as descendants.
• Rom 9:9 For this is what the promise said, “About this time I will return and Sarah shall have a son.”
• Rom 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,
• Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call,
• Rom 9:12 she was told, “The elder will serve the younger.”
• Rom 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

There you are ##

 

[awalt]

Actually, you need to keep reading to get the context of the verses.

Then Paul moves the argument even further to highlight God’s free choices, his freedom to make choices. Just as God chose between two mothers, Sarah and Hagar, to find a recipient for his promise, so too does he choose between the two sons of a single mother, Rebekah: Esau and Jacob. Indeed, the choice of Jacob took place while the twins were still in the womb, before they were at all capable of doing anything toward merit or demerit. The scriptural proof is from the Torah and the prophets: Gen 25:23, “The older shall serve the younger,” and Mal 1:2–3, “I loved Jacob, but hated Esau.” God is entirely free to do what he wills and to choose whom he wills.

 

[JaneFrances]

I admit wholeheartedly that this is a difficult passage to read on its own. However, I think the rest of Romans gives a really good context for understanding what St. Paul is saying here. His letter to the Romans (a mostly Gentile city at that time) is all about building up the Roman Christians (especially those of Gentile descent) and uniting them with the Jews as children of God under the new covenant—in the new Israel, the church. His message is so clear that God offers his grace to all who come to Christ by faith—apart from works of the Law (the Jewish idea of “getting right with God”). The Scripture says “while they were yet unborn and had done neither good nor evil, in order that God’s decree might stand fast ‘not by works but by favor of him who calls ” (Rom. 9:11). Read in context, Paul is talking specifically about predestination to the Messianic promises of Israel, not predestination to heaven or hell, per se. It harkens back to what God spoke to Rebecca in Genesis: “Two nations are in your womb, two peoples are quarreling while still within you; But one shall surpass the other, and the older shall serve the younger” (Gen. 28:23). This issue of God’s favor of a nation over another is exactly what the sacred author is doing in Malachi, too. It is so obvious that he is using this Scripture to chastise Israel, the Jews, for abusing God’s favor. Paul cites Malachi 1:3 to remind the Romans that it is ultimately God’s choice, despite Jewish election, in choosing the Gentiles to be included in the new Israel.

As for predestination to glory (salvation), I think Scripture give much indication that it is not an arbitrary act of God’s will. In the previous chapter of Romans, St. Paul explains “Those whom he foreknew he predestined to share the image of his Son. . .” (Rom. 8:29). This is further explained by St. Peter that men are chosen or elected “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, consecrated by the Spirit to a life of obedience to Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 1:2). That is, foreknowledge has some sort of link with predestination or election to glory. God isn’t a creature of time. . .time is his creature, so without us having done anything in actuality (even having been born) God can foresee how we will respond to his grace and thus predestine us with exactly the graces we will need to persevere in our salvation. It is not clear from Scripture (despite the proof-texting that many double-predestinationalists use) that God damns people arbitrarily apart from their free will. Later St. Paul says “God has mercy on those he wishes, and whom he wishes he makes obdurate” (Rom. 9:18). This also reflects St. Paul’s previous teaching that God is “over all” (Rom. 9:5). However strong the language, I think this is meant to emphasize God’s omnipotence, not his desire to actively damn certain people. To “make obdurate” or “hardened” doesn’t connote the same meaning as willing damnation, but rather can flow harmoniously with the whole of Scripture to mean that God foresees one’s “vain” reception of his grace and thus deprives them of grace as an act of pure justice. It’s a fine line, but this interpretation is much more consistent with the whole of Scripture and church teaching. The church clarifies this as early as Council of Orange in 529AD, against heresy, that God predestines the righteous to glory but does not actively predestine the wicked to perdition. God is never the author of sin–we do that ourselves! His will allows for our free choice to reject him, but it is not his will that we would be damned.

There are some other really good Scriptural insights regarding damnation and whether or not God actively predestines us for it. We are told that when we fall away from grace through sin, we “stand self-condemned” (Titus 3:11). We are told in Paul’s letter to the Hebrews “harden not your hearts”—that is, the hardening of our hearts is of our own free will—and he further warns, “Take care, my brothers, lest any of you have an evil and unfaithful spirit and fall away from the living God” (Heb. 3:8, 12). We fall away from God, he does not initiate the rejection. Again, Paul instructs the church “See to it that no man falls away from the grace of God” (Heb. 12:15). In this same passage, Paul elaborates on the sin of Esau. He calls him “a godless person. . .who sold his birthright for a meal.” He goes on to explain that Esau lost his blessing and was thus rejected, despite his weak appeals, because “he had no opportunity to alter his choice” (Heb. 12:17). Paul is emphasizing Esau’s CHOICE here and connecting it with the loss of his birthright and blessing. This whole chapter speaks so much about God’s ultimate power and perfect justice.