Russia consecrated to Mary?

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Philomena

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The other day some friends of mine who are Tridentine Latin Mass only…and some say may be schismatic, told me that Russia was never consecrated to the Blessed Virgin as directed by her at Fatima. The world was consecrated, but not Russia specifically. If it were, then we would see a dramatic conversion of the Russian people, not unlike that of the Mexicans when Our Lady of Guadelupe appeared to St Juan Diego. I thought Russia WAS consecrated to Mary by JPII in 1984. Does anyone have any clue about this???
 
Yes, Russia was consecrated-- Sr. Lucia, to whom Our Blessed Mother appeared at Fatima, has said the consecration was valid.

A timeline of the consecration can be found on EWTN:
Fatima Consecration
 
Thanks for the link. I read the timeline and the words of consecration. Where can I find Sr Lucia words that the concecration was valid? My friends tell me she has stated that it was not valid and that Russia was not consecrated. Russia was not mentioned in the 1984 consecration.
 
I think we should not be so sanguine about this subject. Many respectable apologists and analysts believe this consecration has not occurred. Robert Sungenis has recently moved his web site (apparently), and many of his articles are still not available but in the Google cache–and presumably soon back on his site–one can read some analyses: Portugal experienced conversions after its consecration in the 1930s and onwards; (1) Russia has evidently not had much going on in the way of conversions to Catholicism. The EWTN “timeline” is heavily stilted toward creating the appearance of the sudden outbreak of social order in Russia, yet socially there is tremendous turmoil as very recent events should no doubt attest. As for the decalogue, abortion has skyrocketed as has pornography. Muslim terrorists are having increasing success at wreaking horrific damage there. The schismatics are practicing their religion at miniscule rates. (2) The classic way to ‘measure’ conversion is with actual numbers: monasteries established, baptisms held, dead buried according to Catholic rites, canonical marriages celebrated. This is how popes and religious are traditionally described: in terms of the effects they actually had on the practice of the faith. These standards applied to Russia indicate no plausible conversion.
 
Robert Sungenis web site is remodeled, not moved. It is still www.catholicintl.com and like you say, the archives will be available again.

As for me… the consecraton HAS NOT taken place as the BlessedMother requested. That is easily apparent, As for Sr Lucia and her affirmation…, it is a type written letter (the first in her lifetime) with a signature that is not hers. And it is the only evidence used by those who want this issue to go away to counter her numerous statements to the contrary.

No Pope, including JPII has fulfilled Mary’s request.

MrS
 
The only people who vehemently hold that it has not been done are on the loopy fringe of ultra orthodoxy. The Pope said it was done, Sister Lucia backed that up, and we need to move on. Guess what? The terrorists are striking everywhere… Like that was proof…

C’mon, folks, this isn’t magic we are practicing; it is faith. Prayer can work wonders, but it can’t work magic.

Fussing about that is somewhat akin to saying three rosarys so your grandmother won’t die from the terminal cancer she has; when she dies, you son’t go around wondering if you had just said one more rosary…

Robert Sungenis is a little more than over the top. Between him and the Pope, I’ll listen to the Pope…
 
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otm:
Robert Sungenis is a little more than over the top. Between him and the Pope, I’ll listen to the Pope…
He does too. Not just when he meets with him.
And he is the first to point out the need to recognize the primacy and authority of the Pope.

Show me where the pope, not the Vatican, or a spokesman, has declared that Russia has been consecrated completely as per the request of the Blessed Mother. JPII consecrated the world, not Russia specifically as requested. And the other Bishops were not involved as requested.

Don’t mislead people without letting them see the what has and what has not happened. Pray that a Pope, any Pope, will do as the Virgin asked so there will be peace in Russia… or do you think what is happening there is peace.

MrS
 
two things: one, if the blessed virgin asked that russia be consecrated, why would JPII not do so? totus tuus?

two: we hear, for the most part, what the media tells us about the world. how do we know what is or isn’t happening in russia? i hear mostly bad things about my neighborhood here in texas, yet i know that God is doing great things. things that will never make the media.
 
So, from what I’ve read through all your links and posts, it seems there is some doubt that even tho Pope JPII did consecrate the world and ‘certain peoples’ (who we are assuming to be Russia?) and even tho he instructed the bishops to join him in the consecration on 1 particular day…it may be that all bishops did not participate. Sr Lucia’s letter is considered possibly not her own and we have no documentation from JPII, himself that the consecration(s) were valid.

So, why don’t we just do the consecration again??
 
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Philomena:
So, from what I’ve read through all your links and posts, it seems there is some doubt that even tho Pope JPII did consecrate the world and ‘certain peoples’ (who we are assuming to be Russia?) and even tho he instructed the bishops to join him in the consecration on 1 particular day…it may be that all bishops did not participate. Sr Lucia’s letter is considered possibly not her own and we have no documentation from JPII, himself that the consecration(s) were valid.

So, why don’t we just do the consecration again??
Good Question.

To be fair, we need to recognize that God is in charge, and IF the consecration did happen, or will happen, it may take more time than we like for Russia to be at total peace.

There are lots of reports on what has happened, and I think that all agree that NO Pope prior to JPII consecrated Russia. The questions should revolve around what JPII did do, and then did it comply with the request.

As for Sr Lucia, she is not accessible to public inquiry. All we have is her history of communication which is pretty consistent – up to the letter of affirmation which has all the earmarks of either forgery or an attempt to avoid the facts.

Pray for her. Pray for JPII. And pray for me too if you would, as I probably need it more.

MrS
 
It is discouraging to see how much time people waste worrying what the Pope or Sister Lucia should do. Mary asked us to say the rosary and observe the First Saturdays. I think that will use up all our spare time and more.

It has been said that a man can do any amount of work as long as it isn’t the work he is responsible for doing.
 
Joe Kelley:
It is discouraging to see how much time people waste worrying what the Pope or Sister Lucia should do. Mary asked us to say the rosary and observe the First Saturdays. I think that will use up all our spare time and more.

Joe, with all due respect, I asked the question because I didn’t know and had always assumed that this directive was fulfilled. It never crossed my mind that it would not have been done. The people who told me this are not the biggest fans of our pontiff and I’d like to be able to discuss this issue with them, intellegently and with some knowledge. I can’t speak for others, but I’m not ‘worried’. I know that God is in control and now I can just add this to my prayers!

And now that I’ve read the links you all have provided, I think I’ve come to the conclusion that there are some questions that need to be answered publicly.

God Bless you all!!
 
This is part of the problems with private messages.

The messages from Fatima are not part of the Deposit of Faith, no Catholic is bound to them or to even believe that they are real.
 
Maybe Russia will invade Europe and that will cause the holy father (or his successor) to consecrate Russia to Mary’s Immaculate Heart (if it has not already been done).
 
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