Sacramental marriage without civil marriage

[NewEnglandPriest]

The example I gave was exactly the example my Canon Law professor gave in response to our questions about Canon 1130

He is both a Canon Lawyer and a practicing secular Lawyer. (J.D and a J.C.D)

That’s nice but there are canon lawyers who also hold the opposite opinion. In fact, when I took canon law the issue of social security/pensions and seniors came up and the professor was of the opinion that it did not meet the requirements of canon law for a secret marriage.

And like I said, theoretically the diocese may be legally in the clear but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t take years to sort out in the courts. Or the state might retaliate by arguing that if the diocese claims its only doing religious cerimonies with no civil impact then perhaps the state shouldn’t legally recognize any marriage performed by a diocesan agent. Its not a legal road a bishop is going to want to tread down without serious cause…

 

[Abundant]

I think the purpose of the marriage license varies from State to State. In Texas, for example, the marriage license is per se proof of marriage but it isn’t a permission to marry.

Additionally, in Texas, apparent authority (and not actual authority) governs the power to conduct a marriage. If I tell you and your girlfriend that I am a member of the Lions Club and I can marry you legally (a totally false statement) and you two believe me and then go through with the ceremony, you have been joined under the laws of the State of Texas.

In Texas, a marriage license is both permission to marry and proof of marriage. You must obtain a marriage license (permission)no less than 72 hours before you are married. You then give the license to your priest, justice of the peace, or whomever who signs it when the marriage ceremony has been preformed. It is then mailed back to the courthouse, and the marriage is then legally filed. Requiring a birth certificate is not requiring proof of citizenship. You can show your Mexican birth certificate along with a state ID card or other proof of I.D. and get a marriage certificate without a problem. If you couldn’t—then how could American citizens file for citizenship of their non-American spouses? And that happens all of the time.

 

[PacoG]

In Texas, a marriage license is both permission to marry and proof of marriage. You must obtain a marriage license (permission)no less than 72 hours before you are married. You then give the license to your priest, justice of the peace, or whomever who signs it when the marriage ceremony has been preformed. It is then mailed back to the courthouse, and the marriage is then legally filed. Requiring a birth certificate is not requiring proof of citizenship. You can show your Mexican birth certificate along with a state ID card or other proof of I.D. and get a marriage certificate without a problem. If you couldn’t—then how could American citizens file for citizenship of their non-American spouses? And that happens all of the time.

Marriage license isn’t required to contract a valid marriage in the State of Texas. This is something basic that is taught in any bar exam review course.

The general policy of the state is to hold most marriages valid. The failure to obtain a marriage license is not listed as a grounds for annulment, voiding or divorce in the Family Code.

The only exception to this is that a party can sue for annulment or voiding within the first month of marriage for failure to wait the required 72 hours after the issuance of a marriage license.

Sec. 1.101. EVERY MARRIAGE PRESUMED VALID. In order to promote the public health and welfare and to provide the necessary records, this code specifies detailed rules to be followed in establishing the marriage relationship. However, in order to provide stability for those entering into the marriage relationship in good faith and to provide for an orderly determination of parentage and security for the children of the relationship, it is the policy of this state to preserve and uphold each marriage against claims of invalidity unless a strong reason exists for holding the marriage void or voidable. Therefore, every marriage entered into in this state is presumed to be valid unless expressly made void by Chapter 6 or unless expressly made voidable by Chapter 6 and annulled as provided by that chapter.

Sec. 2.301. FRAUD, MISTAKE, OR ILLEGALITY IN OBTAINING LICENSE. Except as otherwise provided by this chapter, the validity of a marriage is not affected by any fraud, mistake, or illegality that occurred in obtaining the marriage license.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 7, Sec. 1, eff. April 17, 1997.

Sec. 2.302. CEREMONY CONDUCTED BY UNAUTHORIZED PERSON. The validity of a marriage is not affected by the lack of authority of the person conducting the marriage ceremony if:
(1) there was a reasonable appearance of authority by that person;
(2) at least one party to the marriage participated in the ceremony in good faith and that party treats the marriage as valid; and
(3) neither party to the marriage:
(A) is a minor whose marriage is prohibited by law; or
(B) by marrying commits an offense under Section 25.01, Penal Code.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 7, Sec. 1, eff. April 17, 1997.
Amended by:
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 268, Sec. 4.11, eff. September 1, 2005.

 

[laszlo]

Slightly off topic but I had a guess that the Church in US should start to consider the civil marriage license irrelevant.

The civil marriage is dissoluble w/o any fault, and in many states includes homosexual unions; so it is something essentially different than a Christian marriage, only the same words are used.

 

[Phemie]

I’m not correcting you to be a jerk. I’m just being a jackass (and trying to be good humor). So please please please take it in stride.

Frauds are perpetrated. Perjury is suborned.

I thought ‘perpetrated’ referred to the fraud being committed: you perpetrate a fraud against someone. Is the term also used if you do something that allows someone else to perpetrate the fraud?

(That’s a distinction that Midlaws [what 2nd year law students are called at the University of Texas] learn).

 

[PacoG]

I’m not correcting you to be a jerk. I’m just being a jackass (and trying to be good humor). So please please please take it in stride.

Frauds are perpetrated. Perjury is suborned.

I thought ‘perpetrated’ referred to the fraud being committed: you perpetrate a fraud against someone. Is the term also used if you do something that allows someone else to perpetrate the fraud?

Under modern criminal law thinking (aka the “law of parties”), it doesn’t matter at what level the person aids and abets, criminal culpability is the same up and down the chain of responsibility. At least in Texas and states that have adopted the Model Penal Code, a party to an offense is a party to an offense. I might be wrong as to the criminal law of states like New York or Illinois but in Texas and states that have adopted the MPC, there isn’t much of a distinction between aiders, abettors, accomplices and primary parties.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 7.01. PARTIES TO OFFENSES. (a) A person is criminally responsible as a party to an offense if the offense is committed by his own conduct, by the conduct of another for which he is criminally responsible, or by both.
(b) Each party to an offense may be charged with commission of the offense.
(c) All traditional distinctions between accomplices and principals are abolished by this section, and each party to an offense may be charged and convicted without alleging that he acted as a principal or accomplice.

 

[Phemie]

I’m not correcting you to be a jerk. I’m just being a jackass (and trying to be good humor). So please please please take it in stride.

Frauds are perpetrated. Perjury is suborned.

I thought ‘perpetrated’ referred to the fraud being committed: you perpetrate a fraud against someone. Is the term also used if you do something that allows someone else to perpetrate the fraud?

Under modern criminal law thinking (aka the “law of parties”), it doesn’t matter at what level the person aids and abets, criminal culpability is the same up and down the chain of responsibility. At least in Texas and states that have adopted the Model Penal Code, a party to an offense is a party to an offense. I might be wrong as to the criminal law of states like New York or Illinois but in Texas and states that have adopted the MPC, there isn’t much of a distinction between aiders, abettors, accomplices and primary parties.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 7.01. PARTIES TO OFFENSES. (a) A person is criminally responsible as a party to an offense if the offense is committed by his own conduct, by the conduct of another for which he is criminally responsible, or by both.
(b) Each party to an offense may be charged with commission of the offense.
(c) All traditional distinctions between accomplices and principals are abolished by this section, and each party to an offense may be charged and convicted without alleging that he acted as a principal or accomplice.

I was more looking for the English term rather than the legal term. I guess the word I was looking for was ‘abet’ rather than ‘suborn’.

 

[Leona_Lee]

I’m a 70 year old widow and don’t understand why the Church will not marry me and my 70 year old widower fiancee unless we are legally married. I was married for forty years and he was married for 46 years. We want a sacramental marriage without a civil one because at our ages and with 9 grown children between the two of us, a legal union would be too complicated. So far, no one has been able to tell us why the Church doesn’t allow a sacramental marriage for anyone who wants to be married in the Church since we are both Catholics since birth. I read the discussions in this forum and really don’t see an answer here, but thought I’d try again. Thanks so much.

 

[caseyb27]

Well, I guess my pastor did know what he was talking about. To get a marriage license in this state, one must have a valid SS card, a government issued ID (driver’s license or US passport or US military ID), and a certified birth certificate. Apparently the SS card (or proof of SS) is starting to be enforced in many places. My understanding anyway

Thanks for all the responses everyone.

Just to tell you my experience…In the county that I am from when I was getting married to my husband (he had not yet recieved his green card so no SS number and was not here on a work visa) I was told that he HAD to have a social sercuirty number and we was refused a marriage license. I knew from other people of a different county (in the same city and state) that accepted any picture ID. We went there and recieved a marriage license. This is in KY. I live in TX now and I know here you do NOT need a SS number. I know of many immigrants who get a marriage license with no problems.

 

[Library_Lady]

There are many reasons for not wanting a civil marriage. Personally I think it crazy that the Catholic Church got mixed up with the government in the first place, but that is another story. Many people are firmly committed to God and not so much when it comes to the government. Since it is only God which counts, make sure you have a pre-nup, get married in the church and get a civil divorce. You are still married before God.