Sacred Scripture Topic

[MorningSong51]

You don’t need permission from the archdiocese just to pray for someone who is sick. I am not talking of a faith-healing session here, just ordinary prayer for the sick. Such prayers coming from the heart of a beloved friend or relative can go a long way toward obtaining this favor from God. Actually, I am against faith-healing as practiced by some faith-healers, who seem to think that God’s healing power is at their command. When one prays for the sick, it should be done with faith, humility and with submission to God’s holy Will.

Don’t know what we’re talking about - possession of the soul by a demon? Or a person who is mentally ill and needs the prayers of those who are closest to them and also the members of the community. A “true” possession of the person, does need to be determined by the church and how that is determined is not something I’m familiar with. We’re not speaking of one who is sick - but is possessed by an unclean spirit - a demon. There a differences, demon, devil and satan. When Satan entered Judas - read from scripture (again) “Satan entered, Judas” not only is this a unclean spirit but a spirit that is totally against God, himself - an angel that was throw out of heaven, one that has caused other angels to be corrupted - turn away from God, devils or demons. Read from scripture (again) But even the archangel Michael, **when he was disputing with the devil **about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

The OP brought, a scripture passage that quotes, "24 “When an unclean spirit goes out of someone, it roams through arid regions searching for rest but, finding none, it says, 'I shall return to my home from which I came. 25 But upon returning, it finds it swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and brings back seven other spirits more wicked than itself who move in and dwell there, and the last condition of that person is worse than the first.”

This is an unclean spirit, could be various on the word “unclean” - a dead person is considered unclean in some (religions) and advise not to touch: One who becomes tamé (“impure”) must usually undergo three different stages of purification. These involve: waiting a certain length of time; immersion in a ritual bath (Mikveh); and offering sacrifices. The chief sources of impurity are dead bodies, leprosy, and issues from sexual organs. Contact with or even being in the presence of a Corpse results in the highest degree of ritual uncleanness, which can be transferred to a lesser degree to other people, to objects, or to food.

Read more: answers.com/topic/ritual-purity#ixzz1j2Ovv451

So there is various degrees of unclean spirits and there is a difference of meanings on demons, devils and Satan.

When I said that an illness can be helped by prayer, I do not mean to exclude the aid of health professionals. Actually, I think that some parents have gotten into trouble with the law for refusing to bring their child to the doctor, thinking that faith alone could heal their sick child.

I know that you didn’t mean excluding health professionals.

Because suffering, sickness and death came into the world through sin, so the first step toward healing is actually the forgiveness of sin. If we want healing for someone who is sick, let us pray first for interior healing (forgiveness) for that person, and then healing for his or her physical or mental illness.

Amen, it all starts with the soul and healing. When loved ones and friends gather together to pray for someone - this is a strong cure (Matthew 8:6, Luke 4:38-4, Simon’s mother-in-law, and Luke 8 - Jesus rebuked the wind and the raging waves, we read this verse (also) symbolically/spiritually) I remember the story about the Roman solider who came to Jesus to tell him about his servant - what a great love. We can unite in prayer and find Christ healing presents, “again I tell you that if two of you on earth agree on anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in Heaven”

My understanding, is that Christ, and reading from John 1, was present at the time of creation, he was the light that came from out of the “darkness” but as the passage continues, “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.” Even when there maybe darkness in our life, for whatever reason, we should know that God didn’t leave us, "11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me, 12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;. When one is in a dark place - or when our thoughts become cloudy, know (and its happened to me) that Jesus will respond back, with hope. One day, I knelt down near the cross in my room and I asked Jesus, as hopeless as the day was going for me, please give me a sign hope, and he did - I know he’s with me and he’s with all who ask.

P.S. The 51 in my name isn’t my age - its Psalms 51:

1 Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin.

3 For I know my transgressions, and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight;
**so you are right in your verdict and justified when you judge. **

 

[rom422]

I find it very difficult to assume that a demon can have complete control over a human being with the thought of free will. A person would have to surrender or allow that spirit to have control in some way to enter in through the soul.

 

[rom422]

Don’t know what we’re talking about - possession of the soul by a demon? Or a person who is mentally ill and needs the prayers of those who are closest to them and also the members of the community. A “true” possession of the person, does need to be determined by the church and how that is determined is not something I’m familiar with.

You placed that comment directly under the paragraph where I was no longer talking of diabolical possession, but simply of the state of being sick. Which is why I said that you did not need permission from the Archdioceses if you only wanted to pray for the sick. However, you are right if a person is possessed by the devil, a permission to perform exorcism must be obtained from the Church. By the way, I found the signs of diabolical possession cited by Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange also in the Roman Rite of Exorcism, Chapter 1, #3: sadena.com/Books-Texts/Roman%20Rite%20of%20Exorcism.pdf

The 51 in my name isn’t my age - its Psalms 51

LOL. I didn’t think it was your age, although you are spiritually mature. St. Therese was only 24 when she died, but spiritually I think that she was mature at even a much earlier age.

 

[MorningSong51]

MorningSong51;8801999:

As a matter of fact, the devil does not have full control of the will or the intellect, but only the inferior powers of the soul, such as the imagination, the memory, and the motor powers. Indeed, there had been cases of diabolical possession noted in some holy people. Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange, the author of that book that I cited earlier, spoke of a certain Arabian Carmelite, Sister Mary of Jesus Crucified, who suffered from diabolical possession in two different occasions. She died a holy death at Bethlehem in 1878. In her case, though, the diabolical possession seemed to be more of a trial than a punishment. Hmmmm… I pray that God will not try me that way!

Nor I, however, in the book of Job, and the first chapter being the beginnings of his suffering, Satan comes with the angels before the Lord, and the Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” and Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.” and if we read into the book of Job, there are a few commentaries that tell the history on the reasonings that God diverted Satan away, as history tells us, this being a much different avenue. However, looking at the steps that Satan takes with Job when he approaches the Lord, could be compared to the Exodus - with the plagues all the way to the “striking of the first born”.

In the first part, 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”

Satan, had his way and everything (material possessions) that God had given to Job was taken away; so with some thought, could this be compared with Jonah and the ephemeral plants, “it grew up in a night and perished in a night (Heb. son of night), it was therefore not of much value nor could thy attach to it be so very deep because it lived such a short time. And yet thou didst pity it when it died!” as Yahweh had laboured for it, for He, the only God, was the creator of all the inhabitants as well as of the animals, and He had made the city grow…

With Job, scripture states: "20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised.” 22 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.

Another day, again the angels came before the Lord and Satan came with them - this time, its skin for skin, Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

6 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then,** he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.” **

…and so the main verse 9 His wife said to him, “Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!” 10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. **Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” **

There is a sequence of events in the book of Job, with the curses that befall him. Each trial being a test, “a man who fears God and shuns evil” - when our Lord, was in the desert - for forty days, he was being tempted by the devil, and in our Lord’s reply at the first temptation, "MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE.’” the 2nd, "“It is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’” and the last, "12 And Jesus answered and said to him, “It is said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’” -

Jesus replied according to Deuteronomy 8:3, He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.

Deuteronomy 29:5 During the forty years that I led you through the desert, your clothes did not wear out, nor did the sandals on your feet. 6 You ate no bread and drank no wine or other fermented drink. I did this so that you might know that I am the Lord your God.

and the last remark, Psalms 90:12 Teach us to number our days aright,that we may gain a heart of wisdom.

…lead us not into temptation, deliver us from evil.

 

[MorningSong51]

LOL. I didn’t think it was your age, although you are spiritually mature. St. Therese was only 24 when she died, but spiritually I think that she was mature at even a much earlier age.

I read up on St Therese, and I would imagine that she had to grow up very fast - spiritually and emotionally, throughout her life. Reading about the great saints, and patriarch/matriarch, you begin to understand how God instructs and teaches each one of them to become strong in their beliefs. Look at the life of St Paul, throughout his lifetime of being a Christian - I think they call Peter and Paul, the Pillar of fire and Pillar of truth. Even with the great Patriarchs, God had revealed Himself to each one of them and with the Israelite in the desert, to rely on “Him” - although, and I think, the teachings are not really “tests” - even though we know that they are - but a learning of faith:

25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. 26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.” 1
Corinthians -

8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters,[a] about the troubles we experienced in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired of life itself. 9 Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us again. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, 11 as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many.

Maturity - comes by the way of God, who teaches each one of us “what” believing means - even through our own personal desert - He lead us with a pillar of fire, that being grace…