Saint Augustine and City of God

[JDGaney]

I recently read a condescending review of the book on amazon that said Augustine’s words to rape victims was that it was part of God’s providence that they got raped… I’m struggling with this, but as I reflect on things, I do realize that greater good really can come out of situations and all, from my own personal experience. But then there was a guy who said Augustine bashed the other gods saying “why didn’t they help you guys when bad stuff happened” but he didn’t pose the same question to himself or answer it honestly when it came to the problem of evil. It’s been a while since I read the book (half of it, at least), so could somebody help me?

 

[Purgatory_Pete]

Hi JDG,
I have not read the book but I would say that Saint. Augustine was not saying that God deemed this rape to happen but rather, that God is able to take the evil that human beings do to each other and incorporate that into his plan in such a way that, at no compromise to himself, he is able to use it for his own good ends. A great example of this is the Crucifixion of our Lord. Yet at the time, those witnessing the death of Christ could not have seen nor understood the beauty in God’s plan.

It is the case with all evil on earth, we might never see or understand
how or why God manipulates His plan to incorporate the evil on earth so as to make Good from bad.
But we can be sure that he does, and that from such things the victim can gain in strength and knowledge.

All things are not revealed to us here on earth, and will not be revealed here.
All things will be revealed to us beyond this earthly life.

Below is from newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm

(Latin, Providentia; Greek, pronoia).
Providence in general, or foresight, is a function of the virtue of prudence, and may be defined as the practical reason, adapting means to an end. As applied to God, Providence is God Himself considered in that act by which in His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized. That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God. The universe is a system of real beings created by God and directed by Him to this supreme end, the concurrence of God being necessary for all natural operations, whether of things animate or inanimate, and still more so for operations of the supernatural order. God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities. In spite of sin, which is due to the wilful perversion of human liberty, acting with the concurrence, but contrary to the purpose and intention of God and in spite of evil which is the consequence of sin, He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created. All these operations on God’s part, with the exception of creation, are attributed in Catholic theology to Divine Providence.

Hope this helped :tiphat:

 

[Origen52]

I recently read a condescending review of the book on amazon that said Augustine’s words to rape victims was that it was part of God’s providence that they got raped… I’m struggling with this, but as I reflect on things, I do realize that greater good really can come out of situations and all, from my own personal experience. But then there was a guy who said Augustine bashed the other gods saying “why didn’t they help you guys when bad stuff happened” but he didn’t pose the same question to himself or answer it honestly when it came to the problem of evil. It’s been a while since I read the book (half of it, at least), so could somebody help me?

First, anyone can post a review on Amazon, so these reviews should not be taken as scholarly works. City of God is a long and complex work, to claim Augustine said rape was part of god’s plan is an absurd simplification of his explication. What he does say is that one who is raped has not consented to the act and is therefore spiritually still a virgin. This was a defence of women who had not tried to prevent the rape by killing themselves. Pagan Rome hughly admired syories of women choosing death over rape. Augustine says killing oneself to avoid rape would be the greater sin.

His thoughts are complex, I’ve given you a simplified explanation. Search the net for some commentaries on this book, read several along with a close reading of the actual text. Augustine is not an easy read and his theories are complex.

But ultimately, as catholics, we need to understand that though a respected father of the church, his writings are not biblical and therefore not infallible. Recently his postulation of Limbo, as a place for unbaptised good people has been questioned by many, including Pope Benedict XVI and St. John Paul II.

 

[Dorothy]

Hi JDG,
I have not read the book but I would say that Saint. Augustine was not saying that God deemed this rape to happen but rather, that God is able to take the evil that human beings do to each other and incorporate that into his plan in such a way that, at no compromise to himself, he is able to use it for his own good ends. A great example of this is the Crucifixion of our Lord. Yet at the time, those witnessing the death of Christ could not have seen nor understood the beauty in God’s plan.

It is the case with all evil on earth, we might never see or understand
how or why God manipulates His plan to incorporate the evil on earth so as to make Good from bad.
But we can be sure that he does, and that from such things the victim can gain in strength and knowledge.

All things are not revealed to us here on earth, and will not be revealed here.
All things will be revealed to us beyond this earthly life.

Below is from newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm

(Latin, Providentia; Greek, pronoia).
Providence in general, or foresight, is a function of the virtue of prudence, and may be defined as the practical reason, adapting means to an end. As applied to God, Providence is God Himself considered in that act by which in His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized. That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God. The universe is a system of real beings created by God and directed by Him to this supreme end, the concurrence of God being necessary for all natural operations, whether of things animate or inanimate, and still more so for operations of the supernatural order. God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities. In spite of sin, which is due to the wilful perversion of human liberty, acting with the concurrence, but contrary to the purpose and intention of God and in spite of evil which is the consequence of sin, He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created. All these operations on God’s part, with the exception of creation, are attributed in Catholic theology to Divine Providence.

Hope this helped :tiphat:

Excellent post!